Unusual Wax Seal On Old Letter 1821

Hi All,

We are writing up a small collection of letters dated from 1794-1840 all concerned with the family of Viscount Sydney, and one of them has this amazing seal - most of the sealed letters we have show the initials, or family crests, or words like "The Grim Reaper" but this one is completely intriguing.

The letter was written in April 1821, by J.C. Lockwood, the Vicar of Croydon, to the 2nd Viscount concerning the death of the viscount's Aunt Mary Townshend.

This is such a complicated image to have been 'engraved' or whatever, on a signet ring – does it represent anything to anyone on the list? Does anyone recognise it?

To us it looks like two men on the left, some kind of block in the middle, then two ladies on the right, with a child beside the last lady. BUT they appear to be unclothed, which does not seem appropriate for a vicar - could it perhaps represent some kind of baptism? But surely not naked??

It has been suggested that the nudity is symbolizing purity and innocence.

N.B.
Just in case anyone suggests it, we are NOT going to write this up under the heading "The Naked Vicar Show"

Regards to all

Ron and Eunice

It's supposed to be something in a classical Greek or Graeco-Roman style, perhaps a libation or sacrificial scene. If original, it probably should have more detail, but that could just be from the wax slightly melting over the years.

Brazen Guess.
Possibly Hospital of the Holy Trinity, Croydon

http://www.history-box.com/catalog/...2d7o62i9qro4

Quite a guess Rod. A quick search states that the Hospital of the Holy Trinity, Croydon was built on the former site of a brothel. And that seal sure fits with that. The seals for the hospital look nothing like that particular one,

As for what can be seen it appears to be two couples, the left couple, a man and woman are masked I believe, there are two horned masks on wall? behind the table with a container on it. Then another man holding a SWORD OR AMULET and woman. Then it appears to be a snake Or staff? and maybe a devilish nymph with one of those horned masks raised up.

The devil is in the detail!

Mike

Mike,
I doubt very much, that it had anything to do with the occult.
1621 in Merrie England was one of high reverence to the Church, esp in Croyden.

However, It seems it cannot be the seal of the Hospital, as I have found the common seal at that time, was the history of Dives and Lazarus.
Centre being the escutcheon and arms of the Archbihop of Cantebury.

I'd wager your wallet on it being ecclesiastical in its allegory.

PS: Not sure if the figures are naked, look like there are loincloths.

Rod, Eccles what? Just kidding. I don't necessarily agree that the seal has has anything to do with the church. One history page did state the fact of what was previously on the site before the Hospital was built. As for actual meaning of the seal, occult or otherwise I have no idea but that is what I see in it.

Otherwise it is a good thing there is nothing in my wallet. Spent it all on those little perforated things called stamps.

Mike

Don't know anything about wax seals, but the image looks a lot like Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs to me. On the table (altar?) in the middle appears to be a vase/pitcher/jar. Perhaps an image of an ancient burial/mummification ritual? Would fit with the nature of the letter breaking the news of a person's passing... No idea if this is a possibility, but thought I'd toss in my two cents in case it triggers someone's memory or gives them a jumping off point to do more research. Looking forward to hearing what the final answer is.

Yes ,possible egyptian symbolism: Woman is holding "Ankh" emblem of the sun and Eternal
life.

I doubt this would be a possibility,
The seal die, would have been an expensive instrument, be it a hand held hammer, or a signet ring, just for sealing letters, and authorising documents.
Not an item, made on the fly to suit the contents of a letter.

I remain with an ecclesiastical bent, possibly from a Latin reference, and adopted by the Church of England, and the Vicar of Croydon.

Update:
I now support Ron and Eunice's idea of Baptism.

The church (appeared in the Domesday Book 1086) and the church of the Croydon minster was dedicated to Saint John the Baptist.

That about seals it for me (excuse the pun)
If one wanted confirmation, I would write to the current minster, the English are very good at keeping records.

wiki
The earliest clear record of the church's dedication to St John the Baptist is found in the will of John de Croydon, fishmonger, dated 6 December 1347, which includes a bequest to "the church of S. John de Croydon".

I have written an email to the Croydon Natural History and Science Society regarding the seal, and will post any response.

https://cnhss.co.uk/

Hello All,
Well, what an interesting lot of responses ranging from Classical Greek, Occult, Egyptian and Ecclesiastical.
The latter gets our vote because of the Vicar.

Many thanks to you all for the input on this topic, it is unfortunate that I posted it originally in the main section and it had to be moved to the Cover section. I hope this has not confused anyone.


It makes for interesting reading and special thanks must go to Rod for his scans and for taking the trouble to send an e-mail to the C.N.H.& S Society.

Good reading.
Regards
Ron and Eunice.

Update

Dear Ron
I have forwarded what you sent to the churchwarden of Croydon Minster.
Regards
xxxx

My vote is classical/Greco-Roman.

My guess after looking through Google images, is that it's a fake. This was added to the item later as intrigue. Sorry, but more often than not, the best thing to do is assume it's nonsense and then prove otherwise.

Some information on the addressee:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_...count_Sydney

Sydney in Australia is named after this man's father.

Interesting, thanks Bobby,
I note I share at least something with Viscount Sydney,
"Lord of the bedchamber"