1c 1857 Plate 11 Stamps

Thanks for your input Winston/Dudley. Here's the back.

Dudley, 17L2 seems spot on.

Winston - when held up to strong light alongside another Sc #7 Type II this one seems almost clear, like it's painted clear plastic, almost that clear an impression from the back. The other shows some paper grain and is a bit mottled in appearance (paper not consistently even). I suppose it could just be a very well archived specimen.

Thanks Dudley. I think the position 17R11 is correct. The stamp may be damaged but it is also rare. I would like a few more opinions so I can add it to the database.

The only think from plate 11 that I have found in the Ashbrook photos is a block of 4 (81-2/91-2L11) and a block of 9 (unplated). More images are needed.

For some reason I'm having trouble finding the plate 11 block with 17R11 at Siegel's website. I only see about 3 Plate 11 blocks there. Could you provide a link to the block and/or a full scan of the 17R11? I'm sure I'm missing something. Thanks.

The vertical layout lines appear to be a big feature of Plate 11. It looks like they are very prevalent. Obviously there is the one on the right side of your stamp, and that vertical blur towards the left may be another, although it does have a lot of ink for a layout line, so maybe not.

Yours is certainly an A relief.

Siegel sale 1006 lot 1421.

I am at work so I can't post an image.


https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd....nwwin=poogpm

Thanks. I didn't find the block in powersearch, because its a combination of 20, and 22, and I was just searching for 22.

I agree that your stamp is a good match for 17R11.

The right vertical layout line is oriented the same, and the vertical blur at left is the same. Ornament shapes all around are close, and you demonstrated proper alignment with the stamp to the right.

It is a shame that the top left corner was torn off. That kills most of the monetary value but it is a nice research piece. Being able to plate it as 17R11 is a big bonus.

If you look at the image in the database, I always include where the image came from. A Siegel image will have sale and lot number for reference.
:

Here is a link to the ID image that I made at 2400dpi. Click on the image to enlarge. I have made images of all plate 11 images that Siegel had available that I could find. The plated images are uploaded. I have some unplated images. I did plate 1 strip of 3 from plate 11 that Siegel did not have plated. It added two positions to the database. Plate 12 has a lot of images in the database.

http://www.stampsmarter.com/plate/h...es2/7623.jpg

Edit: I added my stamp image next to the Siegel image above for comparison. I guess that I could call the missing corner "a large pulled perf", sounds better.

Rick - I really appreciate all of the great work you've put into the 1c page on stampsmarter. Its really great. Your notation of Siegel lot is terrific.

I once bought 1/2 of a 1c stamp. The entire top half was missing, but I was sure that someday I'd be able to plate it ... I thought it might be plate 3. That stamp remained un-plated, but I fully appreciate the value of anything, regardless of condition, as to contributing to our understanding of these.

jaxom - When I click on the link in your last post, at the top of the 17R11 it says "Ty V" (not IIIA).

Interestingly, when I go to stampsmarter and click on either, it seems ok.

It was an error that I saw and fixed this morning. It was updated everywhere. (No one was supposed to have seen that).

I was thinking, I could use that image that I made to show the spacing to determine column position on a few unidentified strips that Siegel has. My guess is that the alignment would be different for all 20 columns. It would narrow a strip to 4 choices. Hmmm.

Edit: Maybe I could do this for every plate?

Horizontal Spacing and Vertical alignment does vary, clearly. Some rows might be pretty close, but often its a good trick to use when you are stuck otherwise.

I guess from an image point of view, the trick for you (and even more so, me) is how do you size two images from different sources to be physically the same?

Say I have a #7 A relief, that just has a small piece of the stamp to the right of it. Maybe just part of the closest ornament. So then you have some image already cooked that shows the gutter with both sides. I guess I'd just try to size my full-stamp side to where its ornament fits into whichever side of your picture it fits somehow? If its easy to do, that could be useful. I'll need a lesson.

If you look at the image where I pasted the spacing piece in, I had resized the image from the Siegel copy about 350%. The number is easy to calculate. The harder part of it is the stamp rotation, especially for the imperforated issues. So I had to determine a "level line" to keep the images the same. On this issue, there is no original horizontal line in the design. Resizing is easy, it just requires a calculator and a measuring device on your image program.

Edit: If that works and the top two rows are known, then I should be able set a column for every pair or strip on plate 11?

Along that line of thought, if I had a complete (or made one) row, I could resize the row, cut out a long line for a new image, paste it with the pair, then slide the image back and forth until one lines up.....

I was playing with this idea this morning. I loaded up some unidentified strips from Siegel and started checking for column 7 right spacing and found one strip of 3 that is B relief with left stamp that matched row 7 right. That narrows down the strip to 5 positions (27-29, 47-49, 67-69, 87-89, 97-99R11). I think if I can find enough pairs and strips, the process of elimination should plate some of these and allow me to add on to the existing known positions. Even if it does not fit, it eliminates positions. For instance, I was looking at a strip of 3 where none are column 7. Therefore, the strip is not rows 5-9 on right pane. So out of 20 columns, 5 are eliminated. A few more images of spacings and I can plate the columns of any pair or strip.

I think it will work.

Here is something interesting that I found. Siegel 1006 lot 1473 is a vertical strip of 3 plated 49-59-69R11. Siegel 1006 lot 1469 is a horizontal pair that was unplated. The right stamp of the pair matches 59R11 so therefore, the pair is 58-59R11. That will add 58R11 to the database.