2c George Washington Stamps Identification Help

Hello , I have some 2c George Washington stamps I could use help in identifying. thanks !

Welcome.
There are multiple variations of each of the stamp designs above, so it will take a bit more discovery on your part. But this is what make stamp collecting interesting and fun! You may want to check out these links, they will help ID your stamps.
http://stampsmarter.com/1847usa/189...ntifier.html
http://stampsmarter.com/1847usa/was...ankmain.html
http://stampsmarter.com/1847usa/190...ntifier.html
http://stampsmarter.com/1847usa/192...ntifier.html
Don

The 4 across the top and one at bottom right are candidates for 248 t0 252 depending upon type and color. The scans are too weak to be able to tell on these. The bottom at left is either a 332, 375 519 or slight chance (but doesn't look it by the scan) a 358. They will depend on watermarking and paper type.
If the watermark is perf 12 double line and perf 12, it's a 332. Single line and perf 12, it's a 375. If it's perf 11 it's a 519. If the paper is "bluish" type and perf 12, it's a 358.
The bottom from the left, need a MUCH better scan of in order to be able to tell, as it can be one of up to 9 different types, we also need a back scan of it, and preferably a perf check. It looks like a stamp from a booklet pain though, so is most probably a 406, bottom left stamp from the 406a pane. The last other stamp is a 554 or a 583, looks like perf 10 to me in this image, so that would be 583.

Thats great, im new to collecting so is very interesting and fun, I have taken some scans front and back of each stamp, also a photo with my phone camera. Ill post last to maybe help with the color. Thanks so much for your help and expertise
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Camera picture for color/////

sleonard71,
Well I'm glad you are excited about collecting, and the various varieties of Washington-Franklin's is a very tricky part. (Note that of your stamps only 2 qualify as "Washington-Franklin" era stamps, which is from 1908 to 1920 (starting with Scott #331 to Scott #547 (though a few in between there that don't have a image of Washington or Franklin on them so don't "count").
So let's take a look at those.
First you have one that has "TWO CENTS" at the bottom.
So let's look at the things we can use to "narrow it down" based on what we know. First, we can quickly see it's a Two Cent red stamp, with George Washington on it. So we know first it's a "Washington", and of the first type for the 2 cents (Design A139, which has the "Two Cents" spelled out at the bottom). There are 3 places we can go to "next" to determine what it is. For this we need a different tool for each of the tests (or an extremely trained eye).
Let's take perforation next, as it's a fundamental identifier.
For this, a perf gauge would be preferred, but if you don't have that then we can go after a couple of "known" perforation types on other stamps that are common and you might have. You happen to have one on hand in your list. So we know the stamp isn't a coil stamp because it's perforated on all four sides. We only have 2 options then, is it perf 12 or perf 11. Take one of the other red Washington stamps you have with the more pink color (they are all perf 12) and match their perf to you "Two Cents" stamp. If the perfs match up (just move them to align the tips from one side, if the all match, your perf in this case, is 12). If they don't it's an 11.
So from that we can now tell what the "perf" of the stamp is.
So if it's a 12 (I'm rather certain it is from your photo) we now have only 3 possibilities for your stamp.
322, 375 or a possible 358.

The next thing we can look at then is the watermark. This requires some Ronsonol lighter fluid, and a black dish. Put the stamp face down in the tray, and add some lighter fluid to it from behind, just enough so the stamp soaks up the liquid, no need to submerge it under 1mm of fluid, but make sure it's wet, not just damp.
You should then be able to find anywhere from a trace of a USPS with a "single line" or a "double line". If you're not sure what these are, just Google for USPS Watermark, and there are plenty of images that will come up (both the design, and what they might look like in the fluid).
If you have a single line, then we KNOW you have a 375.

If it's double line, we still have one more step to take, and this one is the hardest. The 358 and 332 are identical except for one point: paper type. The 358 is noted in the Scott catalog as "Bluish Paper". It's actually more grey, but when stamp paper toning and variations it can be tricky to identify. However once again you have some things to help you already.
Grab any of your other stamps in that set that isn't "pink" on the back (because that's picked up fugitive ink from another stamp or envelope when it was soaked off), and turn it face down, along with your Two Cents Washington. Now, get a piece of ORANGE (preferably) colored paper (dark yellow also works, but not as well). Place the two stamps face down on the orange paper, side-by-side, and look at their papers. Do they look the same (or at least reasonably the same?) Then it's not bluish paper. If the Two Cents Washington looks somewhat grey against it, THEN you have a bluish paper 358.

I've attached an example of what this will look like here:



Note that the 358 is on the left. The paper also tends to be a bit thicker, and you can see that the design from the front is faintly visible in the stamp on the right, but the one of the left, is very hard to see the design.

That is how you ID a 1908 - 1909 A138 design Washington.

Get a perf gauge.
Get a watermark tray and fluid.
Get some orange paper.
Get a loupe with magnification of 15x.
You'll need all these for IDing your Washington-Franklin stamps.
Oh, and get a Scott Specialized catalog, either in print or online. No substitute for that.

Also, I'd suggest when you have stamps of different designs, list them as seperate questions, instead of lumping them all together. These are all moderately complicated particularly for the novice.

ClassicPhilatelist that was a nice reply in giving a novice a great helping hand! Kudos for all the panel here that helps!

agree! that was fast reply with excellent advise and helpful information :)

I checked the perf and looks like the perf match the PINK stamps making it a 12 perf. I used an old orange book and placed 3 stamps down. The TWO CENTS stamp appears a paler grey against the other 2 stamps and has thicker paper with no image showing through it.

I havent looked for a watermark yet, so maybe a #358 "12 perf on bluish paper?

thanks again for your expertise!

Thanks for the kind words Newby_Stamper and sleonard71. Happy to help, and W-Fs are a specialty area of mine, along with the Banknote Era. Papers are fascinating in stamps, and one of my favorite topics. I'm working on an illustrated (i.e. with photos) guide to paper identification for all the types (along with a host of other expertizing processes), which will get released eventually... this will be covered in it.

My last suggestion sleonard71 before you get too excited, the 358's are what I would call "uncommon" so it's possible you have one (way more possible than you have a 594/596... :) so thanks for not spamming us with those questions) but I still don't find them very often. Maybe 1 in 200 or so. So what I would suggest is get another example of a Washington from the same era and compare it again (any denomination), and if they both look the same, it's not going to be a 358. The key here is, never look to confirm your "hope", always work to prove what it is not, and if you can't do that, then what remains is only an uncommon result.
(In other words, don't seek to prove it is a 358, seek to prove that it is NOT. If you can't then you have a candidate for 358. True of all stamp ID...)

Hi sleonard71,
I just took another look at your photos, when I was explaining how to ID it I didn't pay much attention to the pictures you posted particularly of the backs.
One thing I didn't mention (because these are all flat plate printed), is how to identify flat plate printings from rotary and offset. Flat plate is *mostly* easy, though it can throw even some experienced students off.

So first, I note in the TWO CENTS (and you skipped the water mark, so if it comes out single, then your assessment of bluish paper is dead),but the back is red. So it has picked up some errant coloration from somewhere. Probably not a red stamp, but more likely off a red envelope, based on how much color I'm seeing there. The problem with this is, it may be skewing the contrast test against the orange background I mentioned before. So please, please get some Ronsonol and a black dish and watermark check it. And since it has all this absorbed red, I will "skip" it for the moment in my note about flat plate printing.

Look at the stamp you have below it (in the series of stamps of hi-res images you posted, or the one next to it in the bottom row on the card picture). Flip that over. Notice the little red "specs" on the back of the stamp? This is from flat plate printing. Ink from the press is picked up by the sheet as its imprinted, and little spots result on the back. This is true of all colors in flat plate printing.

So if you turn your stamp over and you can see ink on the back in the same color as the stamp is printed in, you've got a flat plate printing.
Just one of the things we used to ID the other types (like the 2 Cents 2 Washington you also have in your series).

that is helpful and ill have another look for the ink marks , I checked out this stamp with the fluid test but since the previous hinge and cancel present I couldnt see a marking, I added a few pics of the stamp lightly saturated.

Since your stamps are used I suggest a good soak in tepid water to remove the hinges, paper adhesions, & gunk on the backs of the stamps. Without doing this you will find it difficult to identify watermarks.
Once soaked they need to be dried. Some use tea towels and some use drying books. I prefer the drying books.

https://www.showgard.com/stamp-coll...ying%20Books

Agree 100% with stallzer, though many suggest a tepid-to-warm water, I have always used cold water, which is less likely to result in color alteration. It usually only take a few seconds before it can be removed. Just use a tong to gently push the fragments. If they show resistance, put them back in the water, don't force them.
If you've not soaked stamps before a few things to be aware of... ALWAYS be wary of a stamp on a colored envelope. If there is a fragment of the envelope still present, that color may start to bleed. At the earliest sign of any color around the stamp in the water, PULL IT OUT. Also red stamps (particularly Postage Due) are notorious for fugitive ink which runs when put in water. These can be soaked as well, but you must constantly watch them, and never do more than 1 or 2 at a time. The moment you see even a trace of red PULL IT OUT.
This stamp has a water mark, there is no doubt about it, but we need to clean up the back first so we can see it better.

One other note about watermark identification... usually the watermark will be most visible right as it is submerged into fluid. Unlike some foreign stamps, where you can see the watermark without the aid of fluid, some of these US watermarks are VERY tricky to see. (Especially if there's just a tiny portion of an S you or P visible in it). Not all stamps will have a clear, full letter visible in them. So if you don't see one at all, look very carefully around the edges for the slightest bit of a watermark. The double line is more likely to have multiple points touching on the edges, but a single line may have only a tiny fragment on one side. It's ok to life the stamp in and out of the fluid, while watching carefully as it comes into contact with the fluid. The orange and orange yellow 10c varietals are notoriously difficult to see watermarks in. So keep looking for one in this case.

ok will try to clean the back up some later this evening. great information, thanks.

here is a picture now that has been cleaned up .