Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read








Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Basic Duplex Cancel Question

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 792Next Topic  
Valued Member

United States
211 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   2:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add dsmith426 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Still trying to learn the basics. If I'm looking at a duplex cancel from the 1920s I notice there is a time listed in the center of the circle listing the city. What does this time represent?

Thank you
Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
673 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   2:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The time that the item was received (processed) by the post office.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
211 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   3:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dsmith426 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What does received and processed mean and are they the same thing?

I was looking at a duplex hand cancel from Ohio and it says 5PM. (how often does the clerk have to change the time? I assume duplex hand cancels had to be changed manually. Every hour?

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3282 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   3:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would say received and processed are the same thing.

The duplex hand cancels would be changed more frequently than every hour. By the end of the 19th century, the time in at least some of the Post Offices in New South Wales was changed every quarter hour. In other places around the world and during the 20th century it might have been even more frequent but I don't know for sure.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
6326 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   5:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Quick answer: between 4:00 and 5:00, or between 4:30 and 5:00 depending on the equipment at that particular office. Yes, changed manually.

More specifically, practices varied through the years, but your cancel is from the 1920s, so using the 1924 "Postal Laws and Regulations", note halfway through section 525: "... and hour thereof if the office be supplied with an hour-dating stamp."



One the next page, the first paragraph of section 526 details how the time is set forward, etc.



On a tangent to cite an exception to the practice of half-hours being the smallest time division normally used in the U.S., some models of canceling machines from the Time Marking Machine Company (especially the larger-dial machines in common use 1909-1913) had an automatic clock mechanism to mark mail to-the-minute. The clock did not work properly in many cities and the time was apparently manually advanced each half hour. Elkhart, Indiana's clock worked for only a portion of the 4 years there. Here are some working examples:



Lastly, many of the spray cancels from the last few decades mark mail to-the-minute. A longer reply than I intended!

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
211 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   5:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dsmith426 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John Becker,

Thank you so much!! Btw: Where did you come across those images? Is there a digital pdf online?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
6326 Posts
Posted 01/24/2019   5:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am fairly sure the PL&R volumes are on-line somewhere, but I used my hard-copy and scanned it.
Likewise, the covers are mine.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6661 Posts
Posted 01/25/2019   08:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John, I must ask. Do I sense a career in the postal system? Postmaster?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
6326 Posts
Posted 01/25/2019   11:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Oh no. I wouldn't touch employment there.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 01/25/2019   11:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Besides, we need him on this side of the post office counter.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
936 Posts
Posted 01/25/2019   12:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mml1942 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
dmith426:

There are many of the Official Post Office publications on-line, but not always easy to find the one you want/need quickly. I've tried to address this....

Go to the following link: http://www.texascovers.org/featured-articles/

On this page are links to a series of files you can download. I call these Portals as they provide a direct window to a large number of Post Office publications - and other on-line files.

There are Portals for the PL&R, Postal Guides, Reports of the Postmaster General, etc., and some more recent publications to USPS publications, and they include URL links to copies of most editions of these publications.

These are the result of literally years of research and capture of URL links to publications in various digital libraries.

If you (or anyone else looking at these) have problems, please contact me at the address embedded in each file.
Mike
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by mml1942 - 01/25/2019 2:23 pm
Valued Member
United States
211 Posts
Posted 01/25/2019   6:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dsmith426 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Another simple question. Why did they put the time on the postmarks?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 792Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Go to Top of Page

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2026 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.14 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05