Discussion Over Multiples Leads To Discussion Of Collecting Stamps In General

I guess my statement on pre 1930 stamps was taken wrong. Its just those stamps, according to what I've read and heard, were collected to en mass like post 1930. And maybe its not 1930, but 1920 or 1910. All I know is that the first Mystic Album I bought ended with the 1934 Tran Miss #751. Album #2 starts with #752. So my dad had 4 stock books crammed with stamps, no real organization except that the stamps were in relative order, but just loose. So I bought the albums to organize and see what I didn't have. Book 1 is a work in progress. Book 2 came together in like 3 months and in my opinion minimal dollars for what I didn't have. Book 2 is totally complete with absolute mint, NBH stamps. But once you get past the 1938 stamps,its like too easy!! There really is no work, you just buy!! What's the fun in that? I try to think what is was like for my father, a boy of 16 in Boise, ID collecting stamps? How did he do it? How did he find stamps? His uncle was the Secretary of State and would save all the stamps he could for my father. Each month, when he visited, he'd give my dad a bundle - how exciting that must have been!! Now how did he go about finding a stamp that he didn't have? I guess there was probably a stamp store, or other collectors, but still, the hunt and the drive to find a certain stamp is now lost. You just go to ebay!! What I love about the early stamps is that you need to research, work and seek to understand the stamps and what they are. That's what I find so interesting about this forum and how so many slap up a picture of a stamps and say "Can someone help me ID?". Obviously that person is not really a true stamper or they'd say "I think this is a _____, because of this and this. Can someone confirm?" I want to be a real stamper like the guru's here. I'll never be a Bill Gross. My collection will be good but not spectacular. I'm now taking my first album and working backwards to get the best example of that stamp, that I can "reasonably" get. It doesn't need to be XF, NBH, but it does need to be pretty good. I'm at the 1916-17 stamps - I have most of them but 50/50 on new vs used. I'm trying to get rid of the used. Then I have a few holes in the major series that I'd like to get - My next big purchase will be a mint 292, 242 and 243. I'm not doing this because it will be worth a lot of money some day. I'm now doing it because I'm hooked and I want to acquire the best that I can.

Stamp collectors tend to be of older generations. It's true, but nothing to worry about. In 20, 30, 40 years' time there will still be older generations collecting stamps.

Search the word 'kiloware' in this forum; Grunt'n'Paw Philately is alive & well ...

... not to mention that, even if you are buying onesy-twosy, you still have to find your way thru all of the mis-described, mis-identified, fault-buried, outrightly-forged, insanely-faked, and wildly over-priced dross on ebay.

Don't worry, lad: the game is yet afoot.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Here is my thought !


I lost touch with the hobby when I was 15. College, job, relocation, marriage and debt kept things busy.

Once things stabilized to some extent and other crazy things started slowing down, I picked it back up at 30.

So it takes time for things to slow down and stamps come back into our life.

I for one thank ebay and other on-line sites for bringing me back to a hobby that was otherwise limited to those residing in or near large cities with auction houses. I grew up that way but landed in the hinterlands of the US, far from a city, or for that matter other collectors. Caution when buying is always paramount in my purchase consideration but over the years have had very few bad experiences, and those were resolved by ebay itself. I too have tried and largely failed in interesting my children. In retrospect, I should have tried sooner when they were much younger and had the time to learn. Later their lives became so busy they too entered the 'era of non-collecting' I and many others experienced in our lives.

I too have no problem with ebay. The vast majorities of interactions and purchases I have made over a large range of categories have been pleasant, easy, efficient, and friendly. The other day I came across an article from Hagerty bemoaning the market in early 1950's classic cars with the explanation that the younger generation is only interested in things they were exposed to in their lives and since they never rode in a vintage car their interest in preserving them just wasn't there.

Let's expand that to stamps. With email and texting, let alone social media and FaceTime, much less letter writing occurs today and the younger generations exposure to stamps will be less and less. Where is the exposure to come from? My parents started me on stamp collecting. One of my birthday presents at age 8 or 9 was an album and a few stamps. The oldest was an unused copy of US Scott 223, still one of my favorites. I managed to mutilate the original but still retain it as a memory. But the interest in expanding the collection was self motivated.
I don't see in general in the younger generation to know more about what preceded them. This is not a criticism, more a question in my mind that I cannot explain.

My sister and brother in law are huge Chicago Bear fans. Particularly my sister in law can tell you virtually everything there is to know about the Bears while she has been following them with the epicenter being the 1985 Super Bowl and their attendance in the SuperBowl several years back in Miami when they lost to the Colts. But considering that the Bears are one of the most storied franchises in NFL history and the majority of the glory to date preceded -985, Her interest in the 1963 Bears, NFL champions, all of the early championships and great players like Luckman is pretty slim.

I, on the other hand, am a huge Eagles fan. Naturally last years Super Bowl was a dream of a lifetime, something I never thought I would ever see. But before that happened I was a huge collector of the 3 prior, and very remote, NFL championships in 1948, 1949, 1960. I just started going to Eagle games with my father in 1960 but was not present for the game against the Packers in 12/1960 when I would have been 9, and was not even born at the time of the earlier championships. And yet, I was able to translate my interest in a team and a game that I was barely able to understand the significance of at the time to an enduring interest in the team going forward and also an enduring interest in what preceded it.

Again, I am not trying to say what our generation is doing was better or anything of the kind. I do think it is a generational thing. My sister in law is about 15 yrs younger (52) than me. But most of us collect things much older than we are or from places or times that we never saw, witnessed or experienced. I for example collect colonial, revolutionary war, and items related to the Salem Witch trials. Where did that come from and why do I get the sense that the wonderment, curiosity about, and interest in the past, seems to be a dieing focus?

The motivation on what and how to collect is individual. The philatelic ecosystem is changing in many ways (who collects, commerce methods, stamp issuing policies, etc) but lucky stamps are still stamps and cheap compared to any number of other hobbies.

The motivation of whether or not to collect, what to collect and how is certainly individual, but if this were an individual issue only you would not have so many threads dealing with the future of the hobby and how to attract new participants.

Hardly a day goes by when I don't read or hear from those who wring their hands and fret about the future of philately, bemoan losing money when they sell, yearn for the good ole days, denigrate ebay sellers, insist that only "organized" philately is legitimate, and shudder at the behavior of kids today.

Enough pessimism will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why anyone would want to join a hobby full of crotchety old men?

I find joy in the hobby despite its few faults and am encouraged that there are a good number of optimistic voices in this discussion.

I remember back in the 80's that there was a magazine called Stamp Auction News (or something like that) and they listed stamps and their realizations at 'all' the stamp auction houses. As I recall, it was USA only and covered 20-ish auction houses. TONS of data collection and collating by the authors/publishers. My recollection is that they went away because Scott threatened (or perhaps it was more than a threat) to sue them over the use of Scott Catalogue #'s and values. We ALL use Scott Catalogue #'s and values at the pleasure of the Scott Catalogue company. They OWN these things and sometimes get possessive about them, especially when they feel someone is making (or could POTENTIALLY make) inroads into what Scott does, while using the Scott property to get there. Unless they have had a philosophical change of heart (and perhaps they HAVE, I don't know) I suspect they would do the same thing in the future if they feel it is necessary. Realizations without a Scott Catalogue # identifying the stamp would probably not be a successful venture --- the great majority of casual-ish collectors refer to USA stamps by the Scott Cat #. I think it would take a paradigm shift in stamp IDs to use a non-Scott identification system for US stamps.

ETA: With computers and on-line publishing available, the cost for such a venture could be much less than it was in the 80's. Also, with computers, etc, data collection for such a venture could almost be bearable. Instead of publishing for 1000's (or 10,000's) without the use of Scott Catalog #'s, I suspect the market would be in the 100's, or even dozens. With so many things free on the www, I suspect the market for a subscription-based system would be VERY limited. But, like I said, costs are also lower, so: who knows?

As for stamp collecting turning into an old-man-only hobby, it has been that way for a long time. I started collecting about 1970 when I was 9 years old. Even then, I noticed how many old men there were and few youngsters, or women. I was the exception, rather than the rule. This wasn't a hard-and-fast rule, simply an observation, but I would estimate 75% of collectors seen at shows/auctions were over 50, and perhaps half or 2/3 were over 65. Now that I am 57, I see a very similar demographic. Now, I'm the old man. My grandfather (born 1895) collected in the 1940's - 1960's, and he said the same thing that I just said. I am sure the details have changed, but, generally, stamp collector demographics have been similar to today for many decades. The youngsters that don't get bitten by the bug while in school may get bitten later in life, after the partying gets old, and the kids are out of the house.

Stamp Auction Network has a database of sales prices for 1.4 billion dollars of stamps from 240 auction firms. There is a membership fee.

Stamp Auction News was in business for many years before the end came for them. It IS 30-ish years later, and I am sure laws have changed, Scott's decision-makers have changed, legal fees have changed, and there are probably dozens of other changes that would have an impact on this issue. Don't get me wrong - I DO believe the ability to track auction realizations would be a boon to philately, in general, and Scott (among many others) in particular. More interest in philately should mean more $$$ for Scott. It would be interesting to know if there is some agreement/understanding between SAN and Scott, or if Scott has simply given up on fighting these battles.

"The motivation on what and how to collect is individual."
But individuals (whether to collect and if so what to collect) are influenced by societal trends.

"At some point someone will code an app/site which will glean stamp 'sold prices' from multiple online sources"
And it will be virtually worthless data because it will fail to take into account centering/condition except far sales of graded stamps.

What makes you think that this would be the case? Accounting for condition is not rocket science. Will there always be sellers who misrepresent the items they sell? Of course.

But valuation apps are already being done successfully for used vehicles. Gathering and calculating an average 'sold' price for a used 2012 Ford Truck is more difficult than a stamp (mileage, options, mechanical condition, body fit and finish, accident history, etc.). A typical internal combustion engine has about 10,000 moving parts.

The same valuation apps are also currently available for real estate. Are these apps are worthless because no one would ever hide and mis-describe a home they put up for sale?

Cars and homes are more 'condition complex' and 'condition dependent' than a piece of paper.
Don