Denmark Perf 13 4o - Watermark Looks Like "O" And "S"

Good Afternoon All,

I have a perf 13 4o Denmark stamp with what appears to be an "O" and "S" watermark.

I was wondering what the entire Denmark stamp sheet watermark has written on it? It appears more watermark lettering is beneath the "O" and "S" but I'm not sure what would be printed there.

Also, how am I to tell what watermark crown it is to identify the stamp? I do not see or can't make out the watermarked crown.

Thanks experts!

FRONT:


BACK:

looks like a tough cookie.So it is the 1896 or 1902 stamp.(by the way you have an inverted frame).The stamp can be plated for the issue date.Have to wait for a specialist.

https://goscf.com/t/64938&SearchTer...k,watermarks

Not an expert, just someone who has studied (fought with?) these a bit. To cut to the chase, FACIT say that the taller later watermark (Scott 113 watermark) was first used in 1903. So this is Scott #42 by the cancel date.

Perhaps someone has a sheet or part sheet showing the papermakers watermark in the margins, or a photo of it that they can post. It would be good to see the marginal watermarks for both crown watermarks to see if they are the same or not.

A cylinder was used to make watermarks on these values.
this cylinder had enough crowns and letters on it to make 8 sheets of paper in one full round.

naturally at this age in time, nothing was perfect, so small variations on the letters and crowns ensures us (who work with these) to identify these 8 different sets of crowns and watermarks.

small inaccuracies in placing the stamp sheets means there is a little margin of error in this though.. where it gets hairy is that these sheets could also be placed inverted (inverted watermarks) and mirrored both normal and inverted watermark.

the 4 øre came in 130 prints of double sheets (200 different positions) add that each position could be 1 of 8 sets of crowns and letters, and then times that by 4 and you'll have 832.000 different 4 øres... all in theory of course as some prints won't have inverted watermarks or mirrored as all.

that was a little more than you asked for.

here's a picture of the watermarks




you can quite certainly place your stamp as position 50 in A or B sheet, and from the date and the inverted frame you can place your stamp in print 121, which is the latest print that has inverted frames with watermark 112.
and this matches the general 2 month rule(see later on)

with access to literature, we can see that B50 has frametype 5A, which your stamp does not, so your stamp is print 121 position A50.

Hy-Brasil is correct in his approach, his source of information is inaccurate though (which most foreign literature is) the first print with a watermark 113, is print 125, which was delivered for control between Dec. 30th 1903 and Feb. 13th 1904, a general rule of thumb is that you won't see a a certain print until around 2 months after the first date of delivery, because there was extensive control, and it took time to deliver and use left over supplies and so on.

so you're unlikely to see a watermark 113 on 4 øre until late january. 04.

here are 3 examples of watermark 113, all unused to give an idea of varying color.



another aspect was the inverted frame, which watermark 113 has in print 127, position 91-100 in both A and B sheet.
you're likely to see this offered for sale incorrectly, here are 2 tell tales to identify a correct one.



firstly, it must be cancelled late 1904 from august or later preferably.

secondly, most bi colored stamps from position 91-100 will have the bottom frame and oval smeared. this is true for this print at least.

look at the oval under "FRIM".

the easiest is of course to find a vertical pair like mine with watermark 113 and you're 100% certain, but these are kinda rare, and mine has inverted watermark as well for extra "loveliness"

hope this helps, and maybe give a little more interest in the world of collecting bi colored.

also, see this thread for more info on danish bi colored.

https://goscf.com/t/52341&SearchTerms=danish

Holy cow, that is one of THE BEST ANSWERS I could have hoped for. Thank you so much Sorsh. AMAZING materials there! The help is very much appreciated - you even narrowed down my stamp to the very position it was printed in! VERY COOL!

"so your stamp is print 121 position A50" - Sorsh

For those searching on the internet - this may help with their results by typing out the text in the watermark... for future reference



KGL . POST _ FRMK
or
"KGL.POST_FRMK

Sorry, Sorsh, I should have asked this earlier. Could you possibly estimate a value for this stamp? I don't know what all this adds up to if anything and I don't know the catalog number to identify the stamp as it is here. I personally can't make out a crown as the front cancel goes right through to the back and I'm not sure what "print 121 position A50" is in a catalog number. Again, my apologies - just getting my facts right for documentation.

Scanned this time - both front and back:

no worries, the stamp it self (print 121) was printed in some 7.6 million copies, so obviously not worth anything financially, but it's a fun object to own.

stamps increase in sentimental value when you know about their history I think. And if you can remember the facts about the stamp you might be able to sell this stamp for a buck or 2 in the future.

but acquire more danish bicolored and make yourself a nice collection, they are not hard to come by or expensive, you can build something nice for a couple 100 bucks.

in the post in linked you have all the information you need to get into depths with these beauties :)