Why Are Online Philatelist/Dealers So Bad At Closing Deals?

rismoney,
Since you joined, many of your posts offer opinions based upon the belief that the hobby is in decline. I reject this and my opinion is that your justifications are not valid in the internet age. Yes local and national club memberships are in decline; much of the services and value that they once offered evaporated once the hobby transitioned online. In contrast, this community has seen a constant upward trend in population for both viewers and members. Stamp Smarter has also seen a significant growth in traffic since it was started about 5 years ago and now traffic north of 100,000 page views per month. These are only two examples out of many thousands of online philatelic venues which offer value in real-time and without joining clubs.

In my opinion and until you have a method for measuring the strength of the philatelic online activity, you should reconsider the justifications that are forming your negative opinion of our hobby's health.
Don

With all due respect to the OP

Which do you like more - stamp collecting, or money?

I have found that the pleasure of putting together a nice collection, over time, rendered the cost of acquiring it unimportant.

I have never wished, after the transaction, I saved $30 buying a rare stamp.

I'm not bitter. I love stamps. I also love the folks on this board and their experiences. Revenuecollectors pawn broker stamp he picked up and his sharing that experience, despite my complete lack of any knowledge about revenue stamps was a great read.

I am upset that folks within the hobby, in particular, who are being irrational actors in the larger market. I just hope people will try to be more accommodating to each other, than trying to extract every last penny out of people on every turn. I grew up, where the right thing to do, is... split the $15 each. His loss of money. My loss of that stamp. I've moved on, but thought that this was worthy of discussion.

If I had a buyer like rismoney, I would be over the moon. But before he comes knocking on my door, my price would have been marked up significantly awaiting for him to negotiate it down. Not taking any sides, I personally feel part of the joy in a deal is in the negotiation. A smart seller would always make room for that, coz giving discounts adds to goodwill and drives the business further. After all if the seller has marked up the price, he really doesn't have much to lose.

The readers can digest your posts and decide for themselves.

Pennyblackie: boom. That's what I am saying. If you saw the last 10 stamps I bought, you would all want me as your customer. Now the thing is, the dealer could have said, call me let's talk. I'll give you a coupon on the next sale, but it's the best I can do on this one, and I would have pulled the trigger. Something...besides "no thanks"

I know that I have not gotten more bitter over the years...




Don

Watch the upcoming SAN auctions, in particular the Kelleher Collections Sale, and you will not see a hobby in decline. The appetite from collectors and dealers for the lots is insatiable and competition is fierce. Most of that material and there is a huge amount of it goes back into the market. I cannot keep up with the amount of sales that are offering great material and frequently have to compete hard to get what I want. That is my barometer.

Just imagine the dealer in question going to a stamp dealer forum (all hypothetical) and they discuss the same failed transaction from the other view.

The number of available high-quality stamps is decreasing faster than the hobby is said to be shrinking. On the other hand, thanks to ebay and other sites, the supply of off center and damaged stamps exposed on the internet has increased faster than the market can absorb them. Stamps formerly buried in store dealer stocks are now exposed on the Internet, widening price gap between the best and worst stamps. Dealers must compete to buy the best stamps, while collectors receive nothing for the worst stamps because most dealers already have more than they can sell in one lifetime.

Buyers thirty dollars short of a Happy Meal should keep in mind that Internet sales taxes are now reality. Next year buyers are likely to be forced to pay sales taxes on transactions untaxed this year. If not next year, then the following year. Internet dealers who ignore sales taxes this year and next may be forced to make up the difference when tax authorities finally catch up with them, and they will.

California Internet sales tax collection starts April 1st. Many sellers are above the 200-transaction threshold and will owe sales tax. The $30 mentioned by the OP may be swept away by sales taxes, triple or quadruple the amount mentioned. While circumstances vary, the time to buy is now. Forget the $30, better stamps will inevitably cost more later.

To stick my oar in here, I'm one of those new and mostly online only stamp collectors. Not a member of any stamp club/organization.

I've frankly been amazed at how active the global stamp collecting market is - I had naively thought it was a truly dying out before I got back into it last year. The stamps/lots I bid on in online auctions (whether ebay, Hipstamp or auction houses) usually have multiple bidders, and often go for more than I'm willing to pay. Which is fine - unless you're at the level of buying expensive rarities, there is always truly another one in the next sale. Certainly no indication of a market in decline or collectors becoming an extinct species.

Buy what you like at a price that both you and the seller feel comfortable with, and everyone's happy. Leave good feedback as appropriate and bad in the rare cases it's warranted if the situation can't be resolved. And at the end of it all you've gained a nice stamp/lot in the process, and perhaps established a positive relationship with a seller.

I agree and would add 'stamps formerly buried in the closets and cabinets of tens of thousands of stamp collectors'.

The advent of online selling venues has also greatly impacted and changed the tradition stamp seller definition. No longer the ballfield of professional dealers but rather filled with ummm.. 'less than experienced' collectors pitching their extra material.

I also agree about the increasing tax burden. Online business has enjoyed an online tax vacation for over a decade; I have been surprised it has taken this long for politicians to start harvesting from this money tree.

To the OP,
I would also add that the anonymous nature of online sales could indeed be partly responsible for deteriorating buyer/seller relationship building. If a buyer has a history of strong purchases with a seller, then perhaps it is not out of line to expect a discount or other service being offered. For example, dealers often favor their top buyers and will hold back material to offer to them before throwing it out for the general public or be willing to discount. But an anonymous buyer, with no purchase history and one you may never hear from again, is not likely to find many discounts being offered.
Don

I actually think this cuts both ways. In some ways I have found online sales to be a start of a good "relationship", and others I think are just unsubstantial and transactional.

However, past purchases with a dealer definitely have a big impact as they then know you are serious about committing money to stamps. This is the basis for relationship. These are not social callings. "Offers" carry more weight as a repeat customer, but not much more. I don't know if I am getting better counteroffers, as that is hard to tell - but I definitely get
better engagement with dealers I have dealt spent with. (They know I pay immediately, I am happy with their material to date, and I bare little friction). I am not sure if it is a meaningful relationship in life, but I've had a couple of guys call me with new finds asking about interest in items. Each of those scenarios has been unfruitful as those were not items of interest or at a price I found to be palatable. They try though and I was appreciative of their ask.

I will state, as a juxtaposition to my original post: I did buy a Lennon error sheet at top dollar a couple of weeks ago, what I perceived to be, the best quality one, from the guy who discovered them where nearly all are damaged in some way. There was no negotiation. He wanted top dollar. I never bought from him. I went back and forth over 2 days. He wouldn't budge. I caved. Every situation is different, but in that scenario, he had a product, 20-30 sheets are known and the item is an exquisite piece of philately. I'm not incapable of closing a deal where I don't have the upper hand. But in the original post, I shouldn't have to sacrifice a few extra bucks for the dealer just because. He could have too. His firm and my best and final were just at odds. He made the wrong move in greed, and I lack the stamp for my frugality. I think it's a win because that dealer shouldn't get my hard earned money.

As much as I dislike dealers (as I probably have shared elsewhere on this forum, and given me a bitter rep?), it doesn't mean I have options to avoid them en-masse in collecting. Waiting the auction circuit out is extremely boring, and would take me a lifetime to fill a page in doing so. So it's a balance... I love to collect, I love hearing about people's stories, but I don't love to be lied to, misled, or hear a storyline about low margins, prices or whatnot. I can go to an auto lot for that kinda love.

On a side note, I think I will put up a few pics of my recent pick-ups over the past few months that I think you will all would enjoy more than talking about my anecdote any further.