Why Are Online Philatelist/Dealers So Bad At Closing Deals?

I have attempted a couple of times over the last few months to buy several random higher end stamps ($1000-2000) in value. A few circumstances has ended in stalemates in prices where the seller refused to reduce. I recently had a situation where the difference between my offer and theirs was 30 on a 1600 item and they refused to split difference ($15!!!). I refused to up pay in principle. when you are at less than 2% difference how do you NOT favor a quick close over carrying? People are rediculous. I'm handing you $1585 in cash in 5 minutes based on 2 jpgs inch in size, and you're like, nah...1600!

One would think the liquidity being offered on thinly traded items would be welcomed, but folks are holding out for ask... Guess time value of money means nothing to these guys. There are items sitting on ebay for years if not longer. What's the point?

Facilitate transactions people! Pigs get slaughtered.

You think they would want a quick turn over rate. I'd rather loose a few percent than sit on it for a long period of time or perhaps never.

I concur with what you are saying. I did not even offer but simply asked the dealer (AGS) if the price of the 2d blue that has been sitting around for a while was negotiable and he simply replied "no offers".

Margins are often surprisingly thin on higher value stamps that sell frequently. Markup on commodity stamps like Zeppelin sets are often low.

So I'm guessing you are not a stamp dealer...
As dealer's we don't just "lucky find" high value items (very rarely once or twice a year maybe). We have to buy those items too. And you think that $15 difference is nothing, but you're not taking into account as well that we lose money on EVERY PayPal transaction we take (3%!) Then there is shipping particularly if "free" shipping is then also included. If we have to send it by priority or registration, add more. If we have a thin margin on a high value stamp, we're now down to NOT BREAKING EVEN. So why would I "facilitate" losing money? And I could ask you the same thing... Is $15 really the make/break on a $1600 stamp? Stop being so stingy. High quality material is actually VERY hard to come buy. So I haven't even mentioned the time that would be taken to acquire, ID, validate, post, store, care for the items in the mean time. ebay has made spoiled brats out of everyone thinking that just because you "offer" something the buyer should take it. People who are stamp dealers for a living, have to make a living too! And we can't do that by giving away items for less than we paid for them.

Classic, I respectfully agree that dealers need to make a living. However, like all businesses, building goodwill and focusing on the long term is important. I suppose some dealers are doing so well that they can choose their customers, but to turn a customer who is willing to spend $1500 on a single stamp based on just 2 images must be insane. Unless the dealer gets a ton of such customers every day, I would value this customer over the 15 bucks, as I would be looking forward to selling more stuff to him next time.

If the margins are so thin (under 2% profit) on a 1500 item that sits on ebay for a year, the business model is surely broken. Margins should ideally be thin on high transactional items, not low.

Poor online transactional practices are not exclusive to either sellers or buyers.

But I do not agree that a seller holding their line on a price qualifies as a poor transactional practice. Some businesses do not like to negotiate so they may refuse to do so; changing a reputation for a willingness to cut prices can be difficult.

But if a business always negotiates, obviously they then build in extra room in their prices for this practice. I see no issue with doing business either way.
Don

We have only one side of the story.

We don't know the dealer's name, nor the stamp in question, nor the dealer's investment cost in the item, nor whether it was on consignment, etc.

It is silly to not buy "on principle" and to call the dealer's practice ridiculous because he won't come down $30. Some dealers discount, some don't. It is their individual business model and may differ on each item in their stock. I would suggest looking in the mirror. If YOU really want an item, what is a mere $30? A serious collector isn't going to quibble.

I'll bet if he had the item at $2000 and you talked him down to $1750, you would have paid it happily accepting the perceived discount. It all sounds like sour grapes.

Or, to flip the script:




It all matters which side of the table you're sitting on. Doing both gives you a bit of perspective.

For all the complaining about "why won't they drop $XX" the same argument could be framed "why won't you increase $XX"?

More importantly, to the OP why does it matter to you? You obviously have the choice of hundreds if not thousands of dealers to buy merchandise from, so if one dealer won't deign to drop their prices to the level you deem fit (because after all it's every seller's obligation to drop their prices to buyers' demands), it shouldn't matter. Just move on to the next seller... or is it maybe because you REALLY like this particular example and you're upset that the seller won't drop their prices to your level? If it's that nice, then pay their price. Otherwise, just move on.

Also, to the OP, you are *NOT* "handing them $1585 in cash". Between ebay and PayPal fees, they are only getting $1443 (give or take a dollar) before you even get to actual cost of goods sold and expenses. Also, there seems to be this myth that dealers can buy quality material for 10 cents on the dollar.

I would love to see some of these online-only buyers doing business at an actual show, especially a regional or national show. At a certain point in negotiations, most dealers would politely say, "no, this is the price of my merchandise", and some others would just say "GTFO!". Actually, there are many national dealers that do not negotiate or discount at all. The price marked is what you pay or you don't buy.

We are in the age of the entitled buyer... and it's frequently annoying. And I say that as someone who is a buyer 80% of the time.

Was this on ebay?

I'd be curious on how long it took a dealer to sell the item.

Don't ever go to a stamp auction......you may set your limits on purchases and those lots you want always sell for one bid over your top price .

That has happen so many time to me that I took the attitude that, that lot is going home with me .

I want to try to avoid the fodder of other dealer threads and keep this on topic. I apologize upfront for being long winded :)





Yes. I guess I am an entitled buyer.
Dealers should be celebrating my bids and offers with triumphant joy! Line up around me! I have a stocked Paypal account and stamp want list!!!
I want the best product, at... the best price in a hobby that is experiencing hard times. I see all the threads is stamp collecting dead? APS numbers in decline. The collecting club I am in losing members YoY.




So what people are saying (without saying it) is - it's a buyers market. Terrific!

a buyers market : an economic situation in which goods or shares are plentiful and buyers can keep prices down.
a sellers market: an economic situation in which goods or shares are scarce and sellers can keep prices high.

If we were in a sellers market, with philatelist levels growing, and supplies were dwindling on ebay, auctions and bourses at the current rate, then I have to pay the extra $30 because otherwise I would lose the opportunity in buying it. Just like housing. But alas... the item is still available. Don't think for a second, that a dealer won't feel _entitled_ to charge you premiums in equal and opposite scenarios. They'll then spin it - to - highly desired, in demand, act fast.

This is a capitalistic situation, and not about making friends, hobbies, or relationships. I'm not visiting the local dealer shoppe, or seeing his offline stash of prized inverts. I'm making a deal on ebay. Clearly the dealers in question see their transactions as atomic, without concern for acquiring new customers and buyers. It's not an isolated incident either, so I'm not going to name the dealers.




Its not a perceived discount thing. If a stamp was a $2000 cat, and it was a gem in question, a ~12% savings at $1750 might be a discount/sale and a great deal. If it is a $4000 cat stamp and it's a hinged mess with a tear, originally at $2000, and now reduced to $1750, doesn't mean it's not a ripoff at anything over $1000. Now if it's fairly valued at say $1000, but you let it go for $900, then it's a 10% off sale (from where it fairly valued), NOT A 78% off cat sale.

I'd pay 100% or over cat on a few items if they ever (please!?) come up for sale/auction. Noone has them for sale as they may be gone from philately.




This is not my problem as a buyer. For me, the buyer it's $1585. How you deal with the fees is on you. If you can't acquire items below a cost, whereby the overhead involved doesn't impair your ability to be competitive and facilitate transactions, I'd argue your business is unsound. If it's that slim a margin, the business is doomed.

Dealers may be experts in stamps. They may have lots of knowledge. They may have lots of connections. But... This does not make them good at business. I know a few great chefs, even from strong culinary backgrounds that ran restaurants into the ground. Having yummy food is important, but only 1 part of restaurant management. Running the front and back of the house, is just as important to success as the food in the pan. Watch bar rescue, or kitchen nightmares and this is what I'm talking about. MANY dealers simply do not know how to conduct business but can tell me about the nuances of intaglio printing.

My point in all of this, was simply that the shortsightedness I see in a lot of folks sticking to their guns in prices is definitively leading the hobby to further demise, rather than allowing markets to flow. Collectors will continue to opt out, when they can't make deals.

The story beyond this - The dealer sits on his inventory further... it's 2020 now. Scott publishes a new cat value $50 less than next year, and the $30 he tried to get out of me, has vaporized. Then he'll complain next year, his margins are further squeezed, and if he doesn't adjust his pricing, he'll further be trying to rip off the next guy. Yes rip off. That's what overcharging is.

I'm sorry the dealer can't recoup his cost in the stamp. But don't blame that on the potential buyer. Blame it on the last buyer and move on.

rlsmoney, Why do you participate in a hobby in which you are so bitter?

Then don't *** Edited by Staff | The bad word filter is in place for a reason. Bypassing the filter and making the intended word obvious anyway is completely unacceptable. *** when sellers decide not to take your offers. That's one way for them to "deal with fees".

At the end of the day, with fixed price listings, the seller gets to decide what is an acceptable selling price, not you. If you can't get a seller to come down to the price you want, then just move on to the next seller, or just participate in auction listings, where current market demand ultimately decides the price.

It's not rocket surgery.

One more thing Classic Philatelist:




You don't lose money. You may make less. You lose money, when your NET goes negative. Revenues - Expenses = Net (Income/Loss). If you are entering a negative transaction on every Paypal payment you receive, your business is unsustainable, and you should close shop.