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Pomeroy 117l6e Used Value?

 
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Valued Member
United States
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Posted 04/19/2019   8:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add NanoPhilatelic to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello, I just got a cert. back from PSE for a Pomeroy Letter Express local stamp. The cert. has little information because it is unissued.
It has a remainder punch hole.

There is little to no information in the 2019 Scott catalog regarding this stamp. I am requesting a little more information on this stamp, in particular if this stamp is worth any value. Thank you.





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Pillar Of The Community
673 Posts
Posted 04/19/2019   9:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi NanoPhilatelic,
This looks more like a 117L9 to me, which is on pelure paper. These were created, but never issued. It's on pelure paper, so is a great reference example of this paper type. I don't understand why the PSE didn't ID the stamp in the cert! (I'd ask for my money back). If it's on thin bond paper, then it's a 117L6, if its on pelure, its the 117L9.
We sold one of these about 5 or 6 years ago, for around $100. BUT, the one we sold did not have a remainder punch hole in it. That hole will detract a lot from the value. (Think of punch cancel on a revenue stamp...) I would say maybe 10% - 15%.
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Edited by ClassicPhilatelist - 04/19/2019 9:17 pm
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370 Posts
Posted 04/19/2019   10:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You can find information about the Pomeroy's in an excellent section in Eastern Independent Mail and Express Companies, 1840-45. The work was edited by Michael Gutman and the article written by David W. Snow. It discusses the various papers, cancellations and usages of all of the Pomeroy stamps
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Edited by wtcrowe - 04/19/2019 10:22 pm
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Posted 04/19/2019   11:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NanoPhilatelic to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your replies.
Here is a close up scan of the front and back to help illustrate its thickness/transparency. I placed something behind it.



Is PS E wrong sometimes? Should I get a second opinion? They have been great so far, amazing customer service, fast turnaround, but I don't know much about stamps in the first place. I will inquire about this.



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Posted 04/20/2019   08:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, PSE didn't identify your stamp on the cert at all, which I think is horrible. What are they certing then?
No certification body is infallible, and say what you will about some of the "individual" expertizers, I don't think they get it wrong any more frequently than then "committee" based certs. This is just slack, from my perspective. I mean all they did was describe the condition, not ID the stamp. That cert looks worthless to me. You could see all this already. It doesn't mention paper type, color, or Scott#. That is fundamental where this issue in particular would be identified by the mention of ANY of these.

The photos don't help a lot. Pelure is a paper type I can really only ID with it in hand. If you're interested, I'm happy to examine it for you, and give you an opinion. No charge.
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Posted 04/20/2019   09:49 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
At the very least, they should have identified the color, denomination, and paper type, even if a Scott number doesn't exist. Very lazy on PSE's part. I agree with ClassicPhilatelist. That cert is useless. I would ask for a revised cert or a refund.
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United States
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Posted 04/20/2019   2:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scans are notoriously bad for color, but it appears that your stamp is in brown and the Scott Catalogue states that the Chocolate brown shade was never issued. Therefore it does not have a Scott Catalogue number that could be placed on your certificate. The certificate should have been more informative, but it is not "useless" as it has told you it is an unissued stamp.
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United Kingdom
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Posted 04/20/2019   6:22 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nano - not commenting on the stamp, but on your process. It would probably be worth your showing scans of stamps here before having them expertised, given the cost of certification. It's a shame to pay fees to PSE or others for certificates for stamps with a relatively low CV or market value.
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Posted 04/21/2019   02:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
wtcrowe... Scott does assign a # to this. The OP has misidentified it. Simply being a unissued stamp does not preclude Scott from listing it. As I mentioned, this is most likely a 117L9, not 117L6, but in either case, both are identified in Scott, and therefore SHOULD have been identified on the cert. The cert is useless... "unused" but with a "remnant punch" essentially renders it as "used", or in this case even worse, but it's not like the punch isn't obvious. I stand by this being a useless cert when it hasn't IDed the stamp.

Here is a cert of same/similar issue.


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Edited by ClassicPhilatelist - 04/21/2019 02:47 am
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Posted 04/23/2019   03:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NanoPhilatelic to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In the stamp sleeve that they sent the Pomeroy back in, it gives a catalog number of 117L6E. Is this correct? Why could they have not put that on the cert?




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Edited by NanoPhilatelic - 04/23/2019 03:26 am
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Posted 04/23/2019   07:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
NanoPhilatelic,
They should have listed it on the cert. And note as well the label indicates "Used". Remnant punches are considered a type of cancellation. And this one is therefor, worse than cancelled, because part of the stamp is now missing.
So they are calling it a Remnant 117L6E, Used. Since I can't gauge the color on screen, it is most likely accurate. The 117L9 is the other possibility, and you can see from the images I provided how close the two colors are.
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United States
184 Posts
Posted 04/23/2019   08:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NanoPhilatelic to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear ClassicPhilatelist,

I am a little disgruntled that they did not provided the Scott # on the cert, but they provided it on the plastic slip they sent back the Pomeroy in. I am going to call them today. If the numbers on the plastic slip and the cert. match up, then why couldn't they include the Scott# on the cert? Is this what PSE does with all stamps that do not have an assigned catalog value in Scott? They told me, because the stamp was not assigned a catalog value then they will not charge me the normal 5% of catalog value. Maybe they do not want to issue a cert. for a stamp that could potentially be worth a lot of money for free? I love PSE, and I will continue to use their services, I just need to be clear on how this process is with, "unassigned catalog values".
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Posted 04/23/2019   11:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Why would anyone send a local such as this to PSE for certification, when THE authority, Larry Lyons, is at the PF?
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Ron Lesher
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United States
118 Posts
Posted 04/23/2019   11:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Richard Frajola to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Reality Check - the item is rubbish and is not worth the price of postage to send it anywhere. Sorry, someone has to be truthful here.

Add-on. The stamp was never issued, nor is it an essay, nor is it used. You can buy quantities of the the remainders for pennies a stamp. Somebody punched a hole in it instead of throwing it away.
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Edited by Richard Frajola - 04/23/2019 1:27 pm
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Posted 04/23/2019   2:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nano, I think I see what they are saying about "unassigned catalog value", meaning not that it doesn't have a Scott #, but that Scott provides no value for this stamp. But that still should not have precluded them from listing the Scott ID# on the cert, especially when they've listed it on the tracking slip for the item.

I do have to agree, the authority on locals is Larry Lions at the PF. But also partly agree with Richard, that this is an essentially low value, damaged stamp that isn't worth the cert...
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Valued Member
United States
184 Posts
Posted 04/27/2019   03:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NanoPhilatelic to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Its not damaged, It is used though, with the hole punch.
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