1-St Album Page Of My 1851 3c Stamps

I did get the PM, thank you.

It may have been hit or miss whether Bill would agree with the PF at one time but now I think it is more like will the PF agree with Bill? The PF has there own color chart and I think they are fine with relying on that. I am fairly certain that the APS sends items to the collector that bought Wilson Hulme's, Amonette-made color chart but it frightens me to think about some of the other experts that they may tap for opinions.

I think if Chase saw that intense OB he may wonder where he went wrong with one of his best pupils.

I certainly see characteristics of the reddish, and copper in the top & bottom stamps.

I have input I think appropriate to the discussion on shades of the 3 cent 51.I recently auctioned a collection of 3 cent material and the auctioneer sent two stamps to the Philatelic foundation for an opinion on color shade-one was from a Chase color guide,the second from one of Dr.Amonette.Both received an opinion as Brownish Carmine.I was both incredulous and disdainful.

Interesting. What colors were they identified by Chase and Amonette as?

Also, do you know, if they were good examples of the color(s), or were they sort of borderline items, and thus possibly more subject to a difference of opinion?

Another issue, of course, is items could have been identified one way, decades ago, but, due to bad storage conditions - too much light exposure, humidity, etc, the appearance may be different now.

That sounds a lot like the stuff you sold most recently. Is that the case?

A thorough and involved discussion of philatelic shade and color discrimination:

https://postalmuseum.si.edu/researc...orimetry.pdf

Brownish Carmine isn't even an 1851 shade. So they said your 10/10As were 11/11As? . .that sucks.

I haven't done any plating for any stamp yet, but the 3c stamp is indeed interesting for this.
As its colors are sometimes difficult to see, I wonder: Are there any 3c 1851-57 colors that can be defined by plating? So are there positions that let you know if the stamp is one of the uncommon colors like pink, plum, garnet brown, copperish? Or isn't there such a correlation? I ask as I think I read that for example orange brown is not necessarily defined by its color always but also or only by plating.

Dr. Chase's item was

You can tell the 10/10A from plates OR color. They come from plate 1E (and 1I), 2E, 5E, and 0, so I'm not sure how the PF would claim a stamp from one of those plates is "Brownish Carmine" All the the stamps from those plates are some variation of Orange Brown. You can narrow down the color on of the later stamps based on the plate the stamp came from, and it is especially helpful if you know the date - even if just the month as that can help narrow down the options too.

thank you. So are there colors beside orange brown that can be told by plating, or is it for all other colors more a narrow down? If there is a correlation: does there exist a list which plating a stamp need to be a certain color? That would be helpful for sure.

I've been using this as a general guideline for matching plates, dates, and colors: http://stampplating.com/pdfs/ColorVarieties5.pdf

Both items sent to the Pf for certs purported to be PLUM.The Chase stamp was in a guide that Frajola sold in ,I think,1952. The one from Dr.Amonette I received directly from him to be included in the guide he had assembled for me previously.I had no reservation about either stamp,and was confounded by the PF's calling them Brownish Carmine.

thank you - I think this will be helpful when starting.

Lordy, talk about titling at windmills.

The http://stampplating.com/pdfs/ColorVarieties5.pdf file was first an Excel file and then save as a PDF. The original author did not include embed a separate color profile to calibrate the color in the PDF. The typical PDF 'save' down-samples the colors, so even if the Excel file colors were accurate they changed when the file was saved as a PDF.

But even if it is assumed the original PDF or website contained accurate colors, how do you your display monitor and/or printer are generating accurate colors? Have you calibrated them using the ambient lighting in your room? Neither of these things are easy or inexpensive to do.

It is one thing to make broad color statements about an image, we could probably all agree on simple stuff like that water look blue or that dress is red and not pink. But when you start trying to differentiate between really subtle hues, nothing replaces having the stamp in hand with hundreds of reference copies next to you and neutral ambient lighting.

Anyone who is working with colors needs to understand how we perceive colors and how ambient lighting impacts this, here is a simple start
https://www.pantone.com/color-intel...we-see-color

With the basic understanding of the impact of ambient lighting to perceived colors in place the question becomes 'did Chase and Amonette or any other of the color experts define and describe their ambient lighting?'
Don

Edit. Also note that the background color a stamp is view against can greatly influence how our brains perceive color.


The gray bar in the middle appears to be lighter in color toward the left and darker to the right, but in fact the gray bar is exactly the same color across its entire length. The background is fooling your brain into thinking it has changed. So what background is being used when folks make a color determination?