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Japanese 1875 Stamp. Forgery?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 2,871Next Topic  
Valued Member

Thailand
10 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   04:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add kamarada to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Is this a forgery? If so, any monetary value? What would be the year?

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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   05:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Opinion: Forgery
If the Chrysanthemum has any other than 16 florets, then is a forgery.

Sc#50 1874 1875 (January 1st) 45 sen Goshawk aka Eagle.
Unwatermarked, Perf 9 to 13 and compound.
Ordinary Laid and wove paper.

The three bird stamps, of this emission were issued for use on Foreign mails as the result of the American-Japanese Postal Convention.

Each stamp of the 3, exist with Syllabic letters, i, ro, ha.
Your syllabic letter is i


12sen was wild goose
15 sen wagtail.

Birds or Animals on Japanese stamps, are not necessarily indigenous,
some are selected, if they are thought to evoke romantic associations.

Japanese Postage Stamps
Tourist Library #30


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Edited by rod222 - 03/03/2020 06:23 am
Valued Member
United States
69 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   09:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add restoman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
On your stamp there are two Japanese characters, one on either side of the bird, just above ground level. I don't read Japanese, but these are the forger's marks, or signature. Genuine stamps of this issue do not have these two characters.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8397 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   10:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The tail feathers should be 9 ,yours have 8
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Valued Member
Canada
74 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bicolor1875 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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United States
8397 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   6:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That sir ,is a crappy cert. totally worthless . Stamp is ripped , stained and at less than honest .There looks like a perf. added to the bottom near the center bottom .Not a tear but tears {two}
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Edited by floortrader - 03/03/2020 6:07 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
898 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   6:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philatarium to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamp shown in the link posted by 'bicolor1875' is genuine, but with faults. (And 'Mängel' on the certificate means 'faults' or 'faulty' in a philatelic context, so it is disclosed on the cert.)

That expertizer is one of the (if not currently, *the*) leading expertizer of Japanese stamps who certificates. He is also expertizer for the ISJP for submissions requesting certificates. The ISJP also has an inexpensive 'mini-service' when a collector just wants to know if the item is genuine or not, without requiring a formal certificate. That expert resides in the US.
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-- Japan, Korea, Trucial States & more on HipStamp: https://www.hipstamp.com/store/the-philatarium

long-term member: American Philatelic Society, Int'l Society for Japanese Philately, & others
Edited by Philatarium - 03/03/2020 7:03 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8397 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   7:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
GOT IT !!!! - Thanks ,certificate issued in the U.S. for a Japanese stamp ,and sold on English language ebay with a Germany language "faulty". With no describtion about its defects in the ebay ad . Yes perfectly honest way to sell it .GOT IT .
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
898 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   9:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philatarium to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For what it's worth, it was issued in Germany, where the expertizer lives. This is not an ISJP certificate, which is clearly indicated and in English, but his own certificate, which is customary for BPP expertizers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bund_..._Pr%C3%BCfer

https://www.collectorsclubchicago.o...-committees/

https://www.bpp.de/en/homepage/
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-- Japan, Korea, Trucial States & more on HipStamp: https://www.hipstamp.com/store/the-philatarium

long-term member: American Philatelic Society, Int'l Society for Japanese Philately, & others
Edited by Philatarium - 03/03/2020 9:44 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
898 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   9:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philatarium to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Back to the image in the original post, circled are the 2 characters that indicate this is a forgery, as 'restoman' indicated.

Reading from right to left, they say "sanko" (or "sanko" with a line over the "o", or "sankoo" or "sankou"), meaning "reference".

This is a type of "signed forgery", meaning that somewhere on the stamp it says in Japanese that it's a sample, specimen, imitation, or reference.

A lot of times these characters are quite well hidden in the design and/or obscured by a well-placed forged cancel. Happily, this stamp is a good example of a signed forgery where it's really easy to spot the characters!

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-- Japan, Korea, Trucial States & more on HipStamp: https://www.hipstamp.com/store/the-philatarium

long-term member: American Philatelic Society, Int'l Society for Japanese Philately, & others
Edited by Philatarium - 03/03/2020 10:31 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
898 Posts
Posted 03/03/2020   10:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philatarium to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Back to the listing with the Eichorn certificate. I hadn't followed through to the ebay listing until now, but here it is (from the US site).

It says at the very top of the description:


Quote:
used by postmark Yokohama 2-bar of 1877, tear at left margin, foto-certificate (opinion) Eichhorn,BPP. See scans.

foto-certificate Eichhorn,BPP (2019)



https://www.ebay.com/itm/202916922748


For the record, this is certainly not my listing (the seller is in Spain), and I'm not defending anything, just trying to clarify where I thought I could shed some light on the subject.
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-- Japan, Korea, Trucial States & more on HipStamp: https://www.hipstamp.com/store/the-philatarium

long-term member: American Philatelic Society, Int'l Society for Japanese Philately, & others
Edited by Philatarium - 03/03/2020 10:33 pm
Valued Member
Thailand
10 Posts
Posted 03/04/2020   02:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kamarada to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great info. Thank you guys. I still have 3 Japanese stamps I'm not able to find online. Maybe someone knows)


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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 03/04/2020   02:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The first two are revenues, which I think someone here can help you with. The right stamp is from the 1928 Hirohito enthronement issue, Scott 202.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 03/04/2020 02:54 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 03/04/2020   05:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The First Revenue is #5
1 Sen
Tax 1898-1909 (Set of 13 values)
Note: The 10 yen is catalogued as "Carmine" I am not sure if mine is a colour changeling, or an incorrect stamp. The vignette is correct

Stamp #2 is Tax 1924 (3 Sen Violet) Set of 16 Values.

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Edited by rod222 - 03/04/2020 05:26 am
Valued Member
Thailand
10 Posts
Posted 03/05/2020   11:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kamarada to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cool! Thanks a lot for the details)
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