Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

Hi Nicholas C --

I plated the stamp you are calling your "first stamp" -- the one with the 4 stroke manuscript cancel -- and it is position 7R5L -- which makes it a Scott #11A.

This is a very interesting position -- with a lot going on -- all as follows:

-- It is a misplaced C relief in a "B" row.

-- It shows the classic plate 5L rust spots as discussed in the Chase book -- most notably above the U of U.S. POSTAGE.

-- It has a minor plate crack -- and I mean very minor -- which Chase describes as follows: ... "7R5L has a tiny crack on the bust running from a point about 1/2 mm to the right of the top of the button squarely south-east toward the center of the lower right rosette but stopping just before it crosses the white oval surrounding the medallion".... On your stamp, the crack is very hard to see, but once you know where to look, it is there.

Also -- FYI -- the Lund copy currently slotted as 7R5L on the StampPlating website is wrong -- as it is actually 5R5L. So you may want to use the reference copies on the StampSmarter website for comparison to your stamp.

Regards // ioagoa

Hi again Nicholas C --

I plated the stamp you are calling your "second" stamp -- the one with the DEC 27 cds cancellation -- and it is position 24L1L -- which makes it a Scott #11A.

This is another very interesting position -- all as follows:

-- 24L1L is probably one of the best examples of recut variety #25 "right inner line runs down too far" -- as on this position, the RIL runs all the way down and into the LRDB.

-- 24L1L is a "double dot" position. Unfortunately, on your stamp the bottom margin is completely cut off -- such that only one of the two GD's is visible. Take a look at the right edge of the lower label block and you can see the visible GD poking out into the white space between the LLB and the LRDB.

You sure seem to have acquired an interesting group of 3c 1851-1857 imperfs -- did these all come from a group lot -- or did you pick them up one-by-one?

Regards // ioagoa

@ioagoa, thank you once again for the detail.

I had started to try and figure these out on my own. Today was my first attempt now that I have a better scanner. Makes it much easier. I have lots of studying to do.

I did indeed notice the GD poking out on that "second" stamp. With the plating tool and the examples, I had also seen the double dot in one of the positions, but I really don't know enough to match anything.

All 5 of these stamps were acquired effectively at the same time. The "first" stamp was offered as #10, which was clearly wrong. The other 4 were offered as #10A and labeled A, B, C, D. I'm guessing they all originated from the same larger lot. The pictures I had available showed all these as much much more orange brown than they truly are. And there was no way to tell the plate from the pictures. So, I took a chance on them. That's why I was hoping for at least one to be an actual #10A.

This is the picture I saw for the "second" stamp.
It is so much more orange in color than even the new scans I made.

Hi again Nicholas C --

You are most welcome.

Regarding the stamp that you are calling your "5th stamp" -- the one with the APR 10 New York cds cancellation -- you should try and plate this one on your own. A couple of hints:

-- The stamp is a B relief with a very distinctive guide dot.

-- The overall recutting and strength of the FL's / IL's scream plate 2L or 3.

-- The BFL of the adjoining stamp above is visible -- and it is clearly doubled for part of its length -- most notably above the S. P of U. S. POSTAGE.

Try using the plating wizard on the StampPlating website -- select plates 2L and 3, B reliefs, GD at lower right.

Make a list of any stamps showing a similarly situated GD.

Then go back and look at the BFL of the adjoining stamps above to see if the doubling is a match.

Let me know what you come up with as a tenatative plate position -- and we can go from there.

Regards // ioagoa

I'm gonna say it is 22R3 and so must also be #11A. I have to figure out how to tell it is relief B and need the knowledge that the FL and IL strength means certain plates. Definitely helps to see an adjacent stamp.

Note: The 12R3 stamp has a BFL that curves inward just a bit under the H. This is where the doubling of the frame line shows. When viewing my stamp, I can see the same inward curve on the BFL that shows at the top.

I have a funny feeling that the "third" stamp is going to be extremely difficult. It doesn't have any obvious GDs and has lots of trimmed edge.

Hi Nicholas C --

YES -- your "5th stamp" -- the one with the APR 10 New York cds cancellation -- is confirmed as position 22R3 -- which, as you say -- makes it a Scott #11A.

Regards // ioagoa

PS -- your "3rd stamp" is definitely cut in -- but it has almost 3 margins showing -- plus both inner lines -- so should be platable given time and patience.

Preliminarily, the stamp looks like a probable A relief from either plate 2L or 3 -- which is where I would start the hunt.

@ioagoa Great, thanks for confirming. I'm gonna see what I can figure out on the remaining (3rd) stamp.

I think I understand the Relief definitions, so that's a good place to start. I agree relief A is likely based on what I can see and I was also thinking it was 2L or 3 because of the heavier frame lines.

@ioagoa, wow, this is definitely a difficult and time consuming exercise. This "third stamp" (attached a picture again so don't have to look backwards) is really difficult. I have spent several hours looking at this.

Some characteristics that I noted:

• There are two inner frame lines. The frame lines seem strong.


• There are no obvious guide dots.


• There are no obvious recuts in triangles. Lower right triangle is obscured.


• I don't know what to look for as far as recuts in diamond blocks or labels. Nothing seems obvious.


• None of inner frame lines extend too far. As far as I know the RIFL going up above the top right rosette does not count as being extended.


• The RFL does not touch the lower right rosette.


• The LFL does not touch the lower left rosette.


• There is some doubling of the S. P in the top panel.


• The LFL and LIFL gap lessens from top to bottom.


• The RFL and RIFL gap slightly narrows then increases from top to bottom.


• The BFL curves in slightly under the RE in THREE.


• This is most likely relief A. I don't see how it can be B or C.

I did my analysis as Relief A with Two Inner Frame Lines. I also only looked at plates 2L and 3. Seems most probable because fame lines look recut. This resulted in 155 stamps to look at.

The position that seems closest to this stamp is 77R3, but I noted 18 other possibilities.

Am I way off on this? If so, are there any features I noted that are not correct and are there any other obvious features that I missed?

Hi Nicholas C --

Your stamp is confirmed as position 77R3 -- very nicely done -- especially because -- as you noted -- there are other similar positions on plates 2L and 3 -- a couple of which are very, very close by way of the side FLs / ILs -- plus, the entire TFL of your stamp is cut off.

Again -- great plating job!

Regards // ioagoa

Hi ioagoa, Thank you for the confirmation. If I wasn't at least close, I would need to have serious thoughts about continuing any interest in the 3c Washington. So the dilemma I have now is what to do with these 5 stamps. Only one of them was the 10 or 10A as advertised. The first stamp of the group was advertised as 10, but turned out to be a nice looking 11A even though it has a very small thin. I didn't pay too much for that one, so I might keep it even though a pen cancel. Just not worth the effort to return. For the others, the MAR 18 CDS was confirmed as a 10A, so I am keeping that one. The others are all 11A. Very glad to have them plated. The problem is that I paid more than they are worth. I'll probably wind up returning them. I could use the refund to get a decent filler #95 so that I can complete my U.S. Page 1 of the 1947 Scott International.

Hi Nicholas C --

If you bought all those stamps from a reputable dealer -- you should have no problem returning them. Hopefully the dealer just made an "honest mistake" in describing the stamps -- versus knowingly trying to pass off a bunch of #11's as the scarcer (and pricier) #10's.

Unfortunately there are a number of sellers on ebay who routinely and consistently presume that every one of their 3c imperfs is a #10 -- and if one tries to point out otherwise -- most of those sellers take serious offense -- all very sad, as once the buyer eventually discovers that they have been ripped-off it leaves a bitter taste such that many simply avoid the collecting area.

Good luck with going the return route -- if that is what you end up doing. On the other hand, you could always renegotiate a fair price for the stamps as #11A's and start specializing in the 1851 3c issue

Regards // ioagoa

The seller does accept returns. I contacted last week after seeing the initial scans I made while in hand. The actual colors (not orange) were very different than the listings (very orange). The response to my 1st post here indicated they were all 11A. I told the seller that. What I found interesting is the seller said the pictures used in the listing came from an auction house (a name was given that I do recognize, but I have no idea how reputable). In other words, the seller isn't really accepting any blame for misrepresentation. The seller did say to return them. But I wanted to be sure what they were and the enormous help I received here is so very much appreciated.

I plan to let the seller know about the plating results. I will tell them I am sending back 3 stamps unless they want to refund me 80-90 percent of what was paid because that's roughly the difference between 10A and 11A.

Update: I was able to get a partial refund on the those 3 stamps that were advertised as 10A but were actually 11A. So now I have all of them and with plating completed. It's a good feeling. Can't wait to add the 10A (which has extra value due to a recut joining the top label to the right diamond) and the 11A (now my best copy with extra value due to the minor plate crack listed in Scott Specialty) to my classics page.

Here's a question about the specialized catalog entry for 11A. It has the following:

Does it mean that those positions listed are all on Plate 5L? Meaning, for example, that 7R5L would have the catalog value of $60.00 instead of the regular $15.00?

Note: These values are from 2019 catalog.

Hi Nicholas C --

You wrote..



YES -- your interpretation of the Scott catalogue listing for a "minor crack" on a #11A is correct.

Regards // ioagoa