Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

ioagoa, Interesting discussion, and good detective work. The stamp with the fingerprint is, indeed, from position 100R3.

mootermutt, Thanks for passing on the detailed notes from Chase, and showing your green cancels. It's interesting that Chase described the greens as a spectrum.

It reminds me of the 1856-57 BC/brown/yellow brown/brownish claret/rose brown color spectrum. Sometimes I just want to call it the mud spectrum.

Your Lancaster cancel looks olive (to me) in contrast to your other greens.

Here's a green #9 I've had for years.
I plated it years ago, but I forget the position.

Good greens are quite hard to find on 1c stamps.

txstamp, That's a lovely stamp! I don't recall ever seeing a green cancel on a 1-cent imperforate. That's a showpiece!

Yes, txstamps, greens on 1c stamps are scarcer than on the 3c. Your's is a very nice stamp PLUS a very nice green cds - a centerpiece! I have a single 1c w/green grid, posted earlier, which isn't nearly as nice. I like a good cds better than a common grid, or an indistinct cork cancel any day!

Classic Coins, I've seen people mount 100's of an issue, broken down by color, and then each color broken down by shade and sub-shade, so if you look at any 2 adjacent stamps, they look the same (or darned close), but if you look at the album page, they look like a spectrum. I would bet anything, given a large enough sample, one could do the same with cancels - a green cancel page with colors varying from bright green to something like a dark forest green, with a branch towards olive, and another towards blue-green, etc. 'Green' covers a lot of shades!

ETA: I don't think Chase actually used the word 'spectrum' - that was more me trying to paraphrase him. I found him going on and on (like me, only more so!!!) about colors and shades and how sometimes it's hard to call something 'green' when there is so much 'blue', or 'gray', or 'yellow' in it, too.

ChipG --

This post is in follow-up to your post of June 5th in which you asked for the plate position of the stamp franking your "Dr. Vails Water Cure" cover.

I have plated the stamp on the cover to position 39R1i -- which is a Scott #10 -- and I have now confirmed my plating with two other students of the 3 cent imperforate issue. A scan of your stamp is also attached to this post for reference.

One of the challenges with many of the stamps from 1E and 1i is separating the Early state of the plate from the Intermediate state -- and I wanted to be sure about your stamp before opining. That said, your stamp shows a very slight doubling of the RFL -- which is a sure sign of re-entry -- and thus the Intermediate state of the plate.

One favor to ask of you -- I tried to send you a private message via SCF to request a 1200 dpi scan of this stamp for my plate reference data files -- but I guess I am not allowed to do that for security reasons as I do not yet have 50 posts. If you could send me an off-line message with a high resolution scan attached it would be much appreciated.

Regards // ioagoa

Thanks, ioagoa.
Dropped you a note through the board. If you reply, I'll have your email address and will be able to clip scan to it.
Appreciate the effort you put in to this. Owe you one.
Chip

Another possible fingerprint on an 11A (unplated)

Hi Classic Coins -- Your last post with the "possible finger print" is a very unusual looking stamp. I plated it to 51L2L -- which would make it a sheet margin stamp midway down the left edge of the sheet. From my understanding of the printing production process, the printed sheets would typically be lifted off the press by the assistant printer and put face up on the pile of wet sheets (interleaved with slip sheets). I believe the process went that the assistant lifted the printed sheet off the far side of the press (most typically starting from the lower right corner of the sheet), then stacked it face up to dry on a pile of sheets. A "slip sheet" was set on top of the wet ink. Then the next sheet was printed. Perhaps the assistant printer, in the process of removing the sheet from the press and stacking it to dry, needed to grab it in a couple of places to adjust such that it stacked squarely -- and hence the "possible finger print"? In any event, your stamp is 51L2L -- and the cause of the stray ink / fingerprint is purely a guess.

ioagoa, as a novice in plating anything it's interesting to me to know how someone determines a plate number. Can you explain how you determined that CC's finger print stamp is plated to 51L2L?

Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

ioagoa, Thanks for your interesting comments, and for plating the 51L2L. Your knowledge of the printing process of the era is very helpful.

Can you elaborate on what the slip sheets might have been made of, and on where you heard of them being used for the 1851-57 issues?

Hi Moyock --

Basically it is a brute force process of elimination -- in the case of this stamp it went something like this --

-- color and impression does not look OB -- so that tentatively eliminates plates 1E, 1i, 2E, 5E, and 0.

-- stamp has 2 recut inner lines -- so that eliminates plates 4, 6, 7, and 8.

-- stamp does not have a gouged upper right diamond block -- so that eliminates all but 2 positions on plate 1L -- both of which are B reliefs -- and this one is an A relief -- so plate 1L is thus eliminated.

-- based on my experience, the recut inner lines look too strong for plate 5L -- so that narrows it down to either plate 2L or 3.

-- again, stamp is an A relief -- so that eliminates all B and C reliefs.

-- now we get down hunting through all A reliefs on plates 2L and 3 -- which means we first need to identify something about the stamp that is distinctive -- such that we can quickly look at a reference copy or the Chase photos and either eliminate each possibility as we go -- or mark it as a "maybe" for further detailed review -- or in some instances, depending on the distinctive plating characteristics identified, the position can be instantly nailed down.

-- For this stamp, I noted two distinguishing features for my brute force exercise. First -- that the left inner line (LIL) ran up unusually far -- touching at least 4 or 5 dots of the upper left rosette. Second -- that the LIL bent sharply toward the left frame line at its lower end.

-- Using the two distinctive features noted above -- it did not take me long to land on 51L2L. Once there I checked every other possible plating characteristic to nail down the position -- and there are many. For example -- the relationships of the left and right frame lines to their respective inner lines, the relationship of the top and bottom frame lines to their respective label blocks, the relative strength and weakness of the recut frame lines and inner lines, the touch points where the inner line tips hit the respective rosette dots, the spacing between the diamond blocks and the frame lines, the spacing between the rosettes and their respective frame lines, the intersection of the frame lines at the 4 corners, and there are others as well.

In the case of this stamp, every possible characteristic was a solid match to the Chase photo and my confirmed reference copies of 51L2L.

If you are serious about learning how to plate -- you definitely need a copy of the Chase book (or you can download the free electronic version on the USPCS website). Also, the website "stampplating.com", developed by Bryan O'Doherty, is a great resource to help you get started in your plating endeavors.

I can tell you that plating can be really frustrating at times -- especially when no inner line A reliefs that do not have any guide dots or recut varieties are involved -- but it is very satisfying when you nail a position. We need more platers for the hobby and it is always nice to see collectors who want to take a deeper dive into the world of plating.

Apologies for the long post -- but I hope this helps a little -- as I could easily write a book on this subject.

Regards // ioagoa

You should be able to download all the Chase plating photos for free at the link below. You can click on the thumbnail photos to enlarge them somewhat, but they are too small for plating. You can click on the download arrow in the middle of the screen to download a zip file, which will give you approximately 1200-DPI images of all 26 panes.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/natio...78765445003/

ioagoa, thank you for taking us through your brute force process. It's pretty amazing that your knowledge on 3 cents can take you to decision points so quickly. I am very appreciative, thanks.

Btw, I'll sign up for an autographed copy of that book when you write it.

Hi Classic Coins -- slip sheeting is discussed in the book written by James H. Baxter -- titled: Printing Postage Stamps by Line Engraving

Baxter does not say specifically what the slip sheets were made of -- but he refers to them as "drying tissue" and or "interleaving".

I spent a few minutes looking at your 51L2L trying to figure out if the inking was a finger print or some other anomaly -- and I am still not sure as to the cause.

I do not recall if there is a cite in the literature regarding the use of slip sheet interleaving specifically for the 1851 -- 1857 imperforate issues -- but discussion regarding the use of "slip sheets" typically surfaces when trying to solve the mystery as to what might have caused some of the strange inking varieties seen on some of these stamps from time to time.

In any event, I might have been too hasty in my reply to mention slip sheeting. My mistake and not to be repeated.

Regards // ioagoa