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East Saxony Soviet Occupation 6pf Stamps

 
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Valued Member

United States
123 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   02:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add igopp to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Recently I purchased Soviet Occupation zone collection from German auction and it has a lot of interesting stamps - unfortunately non of them are expertized. Original collector made huge amount of notes, but sadly Google translate cannot help with his handwriting.#128546;
Specifically I am interested in his notes about imperforated 6 pf stamps of East Saxony.
Picture below on the first row shows normal colors for Mi.#58 a, b and c (at least as I understand them) and Mi.#62 (imperforated).
But imperforated stamps from the second row have very distinct color and different type of paper (comparing to #62) - paper is thick and yellowish while paper for Mi.#62 is thin and white. I hope somebody can read those notes and they will be helpful. Thanks.
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Netherlands
797 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   03:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Johan Buvelot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is written in quick writing which gives problems.

my best shot.

first paper: Break in diagonal lines.(the square part surrounding the value) I can not see it on these stamps?

second paper: Very shiny paper. Block of 4 in the middle left one spot not so bright. Guestimate: I believe the shiny part refferred to is more yellowish and the brighter part is more white.

Third paper: first line : Overprint. second part I cannot read.
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Edited by Johan Buvelot - 06/08/2020 03:30 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2941 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   05:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PostmasterGS to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You really need a native speaker for this. My stab at it based on bits and pieces:

1st paper: Second _____ / _____ break at right under the circle (could refer to the break at bottom right of circle on upper-right stamp of the block of 4)

2nd paper: ____ instead of _______ paper / ______ left middle _______ job / brighter paper

3rd paper: overprint / _________ ?
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Presenting the GermanStamps.net Collection - Germany, Colonies, & Occupied Territories, 1872-1945
Pillar Of The Community
Romania
596 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   05:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting stamps Mi # 62
In the Michel catalog (ed.2011) there are two shades, but only one type of paper: u = white, glossy paper (stamp 62a)




It may be a mistake in the catalog at 62 b (gray violett) with "v" type paper not "u" ... or it is a new variety not registered in the catalog.
If you light the stamp on the back of the "v" paper, some diagonal lines should appear:




I can't speak German either and I hope I didn't make a mistake in translating the type of paper.
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Pillar Of The Community
Romania
596 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   06:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
…or they can be a Mi # 58 aU variety of Mi # 58a (the color of the stamps and the paper appear the same), but on your unperforated stamps the paper is glossy.
Michel does not specify the type of paper at 58.


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United States
8399 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   11:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
-- More details about these stamps for those who don't read German .
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Edited by floortrader - 06/08/2020 11:35 am
Valued Member
United States
123 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   12:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add igopp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everybody for help. It seems that those notes are not describing type of stamps, but more related to minor plate flaws (I noticed that collector was very meticulous about them).
I was thinking about imperforated varieties (58 aU or 58 cU), but paper and gum is so different that I had to drop this idea. Somehow scanner images are not showing paper/gum structure well, so I have a photo of back side attached.
I also looked for "paper stripes" and did not find them. Usually paper stripes are easy to see against bright light, but all stamps here have similar fine net paper structure without stripes.
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United States
1106 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   1:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
igopp,

I can't read the handwriting either but I think your assumption about the notes referring to plate flaws may be correct.

Because of the poor production processes at the time, there are so many plate flaws that Michel doesn't begin to list them all.

There are a lot of flyspeckers here. Maybe if you could give a very close scan of the stamps the plate flaws could be found and traced back to what we can decipher of the handwriting.

Dan
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Experienced stamps need a home too. I'd rather have an example that is imperfect than no example.
I collect for enjoyment, not investment.
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Postmark Collectors Club Member #6333
Meter Stamp Society Member #1409
Valued Member
United States
123 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   1:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add igopp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dan - yes, I know that plate flaws are countless. Some special manuals describe each individual field, but I decided to limit my involvement into plate flaws by ones listed in Michele. So I mostly interested in Paper/Color/Gum/Perforation varieties and about those imperforated stamps I probably have to ask BPP experts.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1106 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   1:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
igopp,

That's the way I collect SBZ too.

Cupram had a recent thread about plate flaws in Berlin/Brandenburg stamps. I know he has already contributed to this thread but maybe his eagle eye can spot them on a close up.

Dan
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Experienced stamps need a home too. I'd rather have an example that is imperfect than no example.
I collect for enjoyment, not investment.
APS Member #223433
Postmark Collectors Club Member #6333
Meter Stamp Society Member #1409
Pillar Of The Community
Romania
596 Posts
Posted 06/08/2020   5:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello
Dan- PostmasterGS indicated in his translation the existence of a flaw (I think it is Mi # 62II):




igopp-for easier identification of stamps take into account the printing method:
Mi # 58 = Bdr. = Buchdruck
Mi # 62 = RaTdr = Rastertiefdruck
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Valued Member
United States
123 Posts
Posted 06/10/2020   2:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add igopp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
cupram:
Thanks for your comment about printing method.
After looking under microscope it is clear that questionable stamps are actually Mi.#62a type. For some reason paper become yellowish comparing with normal 62a, but it could happen for many different reasons. I took following photos with simple ($6 on Amazon) microscope attachment to cell phone and difference between Mi.#58 (Bdr.) and 62 (RaTdr) is quite obvious.


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Pillar Of The Community
Romania
596 Posts
Posted 06/10/2020   4:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Very good pictures. Unfortunately I did not find the $ 6 microscope. What is the degree of optical magnification?
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Valued Member
United States
123 Posts
Posted 06/10/2020   4:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add igopp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have 60x so-called "clip-on" microscope. Try to search "KINGMAX 60X" or similar. They all identical and they all have dual lights - normal LED And UV.
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Pillar Of The Community
Romania
596 Posts
Posted 06/10/2020   5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you
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