Do You Obtain A Certificate For Purchases From "Named" Auctions Or Older Certs?

There was a comment in the encapsulated topic that raised, in my mind, two questions unrelated to the encapsulated post. I understand this post will have no interest to those that would never buy a stamp with a cert, but the answers might be helpful to some.

1.Would you seek a certificate if you acquired the item at a "named" collector auction and the item has no certificate.
2. What is your year cut-off for obtaining a new certificate if the item already has a certificate?

I acquired this CSA 61X3 Nashville provisional at the "ERIVAN" collection.



The stamp's color was described as brick red. I requested a Civil War Philatelic Society certificate as (a) there is no issued certificate and (b) I am a terrible at accurately judging a stamp's color.

I recently bought two items at the Gross sale with 1980s certificate. I did not request new certificates for those items.

So, after many words we return to the original questions. Thanks for your thoughts.

It depends on the stamp and why you want a certificate. Back in the late 1980's and early 1990's I bought several early US stamps and obtained certificates for them. For me the value of the certificate was to positively ID the Scott number. I was not concerned about forgeries as they are not too common for early US. But back then not as much attention was paid to defects, especially minor defects, reperfing, etc. Those are bigger concerns today so a new certificate would be in order.

If a stamp is known to be heavily forged or if a color variety has a big price premium then a certificate or updated certificate is almost de rigueur.

The stamp you are showing appears to be ochre, not even close to brick red. So a certificate would be mandatory for me.

Yes, I was thinking that the brick was made from fireclay, rather than red clay.

A certificate is a must. I always place lots on extension if a certificate is more than five years old because it gets it over with, satisfies my mind and adds value down the road if I wish to sell. Not to mention that the extension process enables Contract provisions that protect me quite a bit in most cases.

i just did with 3X on cover scott no 2, 2X on cover scott1 en 1x on cover scott 64 (pink)

want to know if stamps are sound and usage on cover is original. on 2 covers also want to know if RR markings are original

I will usually trust Siegel's judgement and not bother with a cert. There are exceptions, but especially stamps that have a clear provenance, have been sold multiple times and documented over the years. That's enough for me. A good example is a Scott 84 with original gum I bought some time ago. You might think a cert would be important for the grill and for the gum, but this stamp has been sold several times and been viewed by enough people that I just don't feel the need to get an expensive piece of paper to confirm it.

Germania wrote: "it depends on the stamp and why you want a certificate." Rogdcam wrote: "a certificate is a must."

Both make good points. The original post, and subsequent posts, are about US stamps. US is a secondary specialty for me and I think I have gotten certs on maybe three stamps. My main areas are Portuguese colonies, Mexico, and Poland. One needs to know the material for these because if you're seeing a need for certs, that likely means you're buying high catalog items. Classic material of all three have certain issues, or areas, where forgeries abound. For me, it doesn't matter who is selling, although I have high regard for a couple of dealers from whom I buy material. But, when in doubt, getting certs is cheap insurance.

I will put an auction-purchased stamp on extension (get a cert) if there is reasonable doubt about the catalog description; if the stamp is one that I really "need", but which has been hard to find and the most recent cert is 5-8 years or older. While kind of a secondary collection, I also enjoy looking through my cert books to see who provided the authenticating signatures, "oldest" cert, who requested the cert - so disappointed that many times the name of the person / firm submitting for certification has been removed.

People tend to cut off the submitters name. Rupp Brothers stamps their name on the back of the cert.

As an add-on to the topic, for "older certs," I thought seriously of bidding on an Amelia Earhart overprinted Mexico airmail this month in the Cherrystone Auction. Ultimately, I decided to keep the money "at home." It looked legit to me and had two signatures on the reverse, one of which I know. And Cherrystone has a very good reputation.

But, the Philatelic Foundation cert was from 1972. So, if I had bid and was successful, it would have gone to MEPSI for a new cert. I haven't checked yet for the hammer price.