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Are There Different Ways To Make Watermarks?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 653Next Topic  
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Israel
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Posted 12/25/2020   10:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Rob Roy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Among the stamps that I have, some watermarks are visible, some reveal themselves against a strong light, and some need lighter fluid.
Why are these references?
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Posted 12/25/2020   11:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would assume that it is a matter of pressure applied during the watermarking process. Some Washington-Franklin's are horrible to identify watermarks on. Russian stamps tend to be readily visible to the naked eye.
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Israel
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Posted 12/25/2020   11:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So you think it's only a matter of pressure? I see Italian. San Marino and the Vatican having the same measure of visibility, while other countries don't. Does it mean Italy has different pressure than the rest of the world?
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Posted 12/25/2020   12:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is probably due to the specific materials and process in putting the watermark symbols in the paper screen.

I am not a paper historian, but I'm guessing that this process has been going on in Italy for many centuries.
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Israel
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Posted 12/25/2020   12:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I hope someone can shed some light on these processes and materials, especially since collectors focus so much on watermarks.

I found this in Britannica:

Two types of watermark have been produced. The more common type, which produces a translucent design when held up to a light, is produced by a wire design laid over and sewn onto the sheet mold wire (for handmade paper) or attached to the "dandy roll" (for machine-made paper). The rarer "shaded" watermark is produced by a depression in the sheet mold wire, which results in a greater density of fibers hence, a shaded, or darker, design when held up to a light.
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Edited by Rob Roy - 12/25/2020 12:30 pm
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Posted 12/25/2020   4:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great question RR!
Always wondered myself, esp Modern Paper Wmks. (envelopes etc)
The Britannica may have answered that question.

Roanoke Virginia 1587

Roanoke Virginia 1996
On October 10-13, 1996 the First International Conference On The History, Function And Study Of Watermarks was held at Roanoke, Virginia.

https://www.motherbedford.com/water...rmark1B9.htm
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Edited by rod222 - 12/25/2020 4:53 pm
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Israel
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Posted 12/25/2020   6:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's a great link. I assume that the site was intended for all watermarks, not just stamps.
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Posted 12/25/2020   6:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
not just stamps.


Indeed.
Watermarks existed prior to even Columbus (Cristóbal Colón) sailing.

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Edited by rod222 - 12/25/2020 7:00 pm
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Posted 01/17/2021   5:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For machine made paper - practically all stamps since 1860 - TWO types of paper machines were used:

- long wire machine which has the wire giving an impression on one side and the dandy-roll giving the watermark on the opposite side.
- the round sieve that has the wire wrapped around a cylinder plus the watermark attached to that same wire/sieve! Wire and watermark are always on the same side!

Also it depends on whether the side that has the watermark will apply this at the front of the stamp or at the back!

When applied at the front it will not always be so visible, whereas when the watermark was applied at the back of the stamp it will be clearly visible!

Rein
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Edited by Galeoptix - 01/17/2021 5:39 pm
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Posted 01/17/2021   6:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add shermae to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have to believe that paper thickness affects how easily a watermark is seen.
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Posted 01/18/2021   03:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Of course! When the watermark was applied at the front, the thicker the paper, the less can be seen at the back :)

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Posted 01/18/2021   07:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
German stamp with a deep watermark applied at the back!

You can clearly see that the watermark goes deep!


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Posted 01/18/2021   07:13 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Don
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