Here's An Interesting Ebay Item

Nice follow up to a strange listing and story. Also glad it is both legit and going back to the hobby. And glad the new owners ended up moving this a bit more properly and being open to advice. Definitely an interesting thread and I agree it is one that tied nicely with the other thread in discussion.

This pile, a small portion of the 10 cubic Yard dealer's estate holding as shown on ebay:


was examined and purchased for $20,000 and hauled off by a local collector/vest pocket dealer a couple of hours ago (Saturday afternoon).

For fun here are a couple cover photos I was sent from the majority of what remains:

This to FDC has the Harmer's certification as coming from the collection of POTUS Roosevelt.




These are a group followed by "individual" photos of the group items:

It looked a bargain to me, at $10,000
after all, I am still trying to secure a set of Billigs Catalogues
that shall cost around $1000
As others mentioned, toning or damage would have been my major concern.
Apart from that, the sheer volume suggested a great deal.

Boy! there is some work ahead for that purchaser,
Is that envy I feel surfacing?
Hope not.

Not a problem.




Don't worry rod222, the known cert material I mention was not part of the pictured bulk grouping.




Here in the SF Bay Area, especially the "East Bay" where the material is located has many sharp, moneyed collectors around. That has a lot to do with the major quality of the local APS-WSP show, WESTPEX; consistently rank as the second best show after the summer APS Stampshow.

Also without putting too fine a point on it, that could trigger reporting requirements and perhaps even a valid SSN. One never know the position of junk-haulers in the greater SF Bay Area. Nor in California, are you permitted to ask. To do so can get yourself hit with a government fine.

I am surprised that there has not been any comments about this...



Assuming that they had no real intention to actually sell it on ebay, was this a clever use of the venue or was this a bit slippery? Obviously the strategy worked, it got this thread started, got people contacting them...
Don

I bid $20K on an auction years ago for boxes and boxes of original USPS material. Only bidder. Very few photos. Didn't achieve the reserve. According to the seller the reserve was $200K. Didn't find out the final outcome. Seller definitely didn't know what he was doing. If you all had contacted him as now, things would have turned out differently.

Still trying to understand this. The cell phone screenshot of the mess is current state as moved from estate to new owners marketing it? So they share photos of the pricey covers and individual stamps that were supposedly culled from the 10CY but they have stored the material that they just sold for $20,000 in a disheveled heaping mess in an outdoor metal shed?

See where I am going with this? Why on earth would you take a hoard you "rescued" years ago and throw it in a heap in an outdoor storage shed. It looks as if a typhoon hit it. They are picking from this through the years?

I smell BS here. Big time.

If they wanted to 'generate more interest' posting images of disheveled material in an outdoor shed under a brand new ebay account is not typically the first approach that comes to mind.

Or was this an intentional attempt to make it appear like a mess owned by 'noobs'? Did they start it at $10k to make sure they did not get any bids (making it harder to then cancel the listing)?
Don

A few months ago I got involved with a very similar situation. A big lot on the west coast was offered on ebay with few details. I contacted the seller and he wanted to talk on the phone. He called and told me a long tale of having a storage unit full of material and he said he'd send me $20,000 worth of material for $10,000 that he needed for his ex wife. He said he just used ebay to generate interest. I asked for pictures and he sent a few uninspiring pics and then called again. The 2nd time he called he had a whole different story. It got to the point I didn't know what he had to sell or what his story really was, but I knew I wanted no part of it. I eventually told him not to call me anymore and blocked his number.

I find it interesting the photos of the individual covers are quite different from the ebay photos….

To add to Don's query, I do wonder if on a technicality side that ebay would consider using their venue to "generate interest" for a private off-eBay sale to be a violation of TOS and eligible for some FVFees.

"Here in the SF Bay Area, especially the "East Bay" where the material is located has many sharp, moneyed collectors around."

So why not make these moneyed collectors compete for it in an a real auction instead of posting a fake ebay auction?

If they are using ebay for free advertising and as you suggest hiding from the IRS, what else are they hiding?

They were hired to empty a hoarder's house and haul it all away. Part of the mess they removed from the home included this 10CY of stock of a dealer (shows and vest pocket) of 40+ years.

If you see actual hoarder's homes, and I have, what you see in the photo was as it was found and then transported. That is not an open to the elements storage box. Again, the material in the one picture was sold at $20,000 to a collector/vest pocket-eBay seller. He looked he saw he paid and he hauled away the material. Same as has been done with the other groups examined, paid for and happily hauled off.

While I can understand your thinking. This turned out to be the real deal and for these brothers some serious money with only time and self-driven learning as the investment.

As this has developed, I heard the name of the departed dealer and I know living dealers who sold to him over the years, even back in his beginnings. None of which I have permission to share.

Anyone touching this gets a win, especially the young men with the sense not to dump it all into a paper cycling bin or land fill. The loss was the lack of caring or communication between the dealer and his heirs resulting in the unknown request (or even perhaps the known disposal of just some stamps of no interest to them) to dump six figures, wholesale, of middle of the road philatelic material. As someone said after review, I saw six or seven excellent mint White Plains sheets, but I have enough of them to sell already, I don't need more at any price. This is almost the nightmare scenario prompting all the "helping heirs" advice areas. It was just a very bad dream as the material was not lost to the hobby which would have made it a nightmare.

When WESTPEX 2021 rolls around in late July this year, I suspect there will be some conversations about this dealer's holdings and return back into the hobby.





They were noob's who spent time trying to learn about the material which just fell into their lucky unsuspecting laps. The ebay listing did generate interest and the photo of group material sold for $20K. The better material was not part of that small fraction of the original. The better stuff has and is still selling in chunks.

They were made from the same cell phone. For those sent to me, I did crop out the guy's lap and legs before posting. A photography class could help as well.




If for example one is not allowed to have an SSN, one cannot provide one. On ebay and other selling sites if ones sales exceed $600 per year now, income documents must be issued (use search function on the SCF); this being a change as part of one of POTUS Biden's stimulus bills. Thus in such circumstances, there can be sanctuary state workarounds one must use. For those unaware, California is a sanctuary state with some of the strongest laws protecting the undocumented and dreamers.

Who is to say the purchaser was found due to ebay? And, ebay can always close the account. Likewise one is not to send contact information via ebay, that doesn't stop folks from doing so. When and if ebay figures it out they are free to take action against the account. While such may bother you and me, it does not bother everyone.

For a thread elsewhere in SCF, I revisited this thread.

I will now share more information.

Dealer Stanley Pillar went and visited the holdings. Stanley, after looking for a few seconds, recognized the stock, knew the dealers name and knew what he himself had sold the dealer over the years. Stanley used him to move "second level material" beneath the quality Stanley would handle but which can in as part of a lot or collection purchase. He described the dealer as a solid bourse dealer who attended and sold regularly for many years. As such bourse dealers go he was a solid mid to upper level dealer with no retail store and little mail order. Stanley was also aware the dealer who lived in San Francisco had recently died with no family interest in the stamp stock/collection.

The guys were hired to clear the contents for the heirs and did so. as noted before one thought this may be stuff worth researching and perhaps selling. He did the research learned enough which I determined from discussing the matter with him and speaking with others who made purchases or as with Stanley reviewed the material in person.

Besides the listing ebay they also listed on Craig's List to find interested buyer. All sales were done at their location, face to face, with cash payments. Overall, there were no losers, especially the hobby.

So yes this was one of those finds folks hope for and tell stories about.

Edit: I will add that even Stanley was impress about how the two guy handled the entire matter from spotting it, researching it and selling it off at good prices for dealers of such material and especially for collectors too well below wholesale.