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Panama–california Exposition Not Panama–pacific International Exposition

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Posted 06/08/2021   3:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add patg23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message


Of the two, which do you think is the better known? The Panama–California Exposition started first and lasted longer; but the PPIE seems to get all the attention.Even in Scott, as it only shows the SF Model PO.

(Some info about the model PO)
https://www.socialcorrespondence.co...nd-the-ppie/

I guess San Diego didn't have as grand a PO.


The Panama–California Exposition was an exposition held in San Diego, California, between January 1, 1915, and January 1, 1917. The exposition celebrated the opening of the Panama Canal, and was meant to tout San Diego as the first U.S. port of call for ships traveling north after passing westward through the canal. The fair was held in San Diego's large urban Balboa Park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panam...a_Exposition

(PPIE - Not to be confused with the Panama–California Exposition.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panam...l_Exposition

The Panama–Pacific International Exposition was a world's fair held in San Francisco, California, United States, from February 20 to December 4, 1915. Its stated purpose was to celebrate the completion of the Panama Canal, but it was widely seen in the city as an opportunity to showcase its recovery from the 1906 earthquake. The fair was constructed on a 636 acre site along the northern shore, between the Presidio and Fort Mason, now known as the Marina District.

(Panama–California Expo station cancel)

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Posted 06/08/2021   5:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Of the two, which do you think is the better known?


The PCE has always been second rate to the PPIE. It will continue to be second rate for many reasons.

PCE:

No stamps issued.
No proof stamps (P2a) or other special exhibit postal history.
Thus no need to list the issued stamp with the related post office's cancel which was a basic post office, not a special Model Post Office.
No coinage issued.
No local storied US Government Mint to issue said coinage.
No Federal Government financial support nor interest and very little from the state.
Unwilling to cancel the exhibition went asked.
Basically as city and its self-serving interests being just tolerated as the disgusting boor of an uncle at the wedding.
San Diego was not as important as a city at the time compared to San Francisco. which held true during the fairs of 1935 and 1939-40.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 06/08/2021 5:42 pm
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Posted 06/08/2021   8:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ouch - Kick 'em!

Kind of hard to beat this
Saw one for sale on eBay $160,000!


But I'll try-





Says right on it: East Side Beer "Gold Metal"....Winner!

San Francisco AND San Diego!

/S - San Diego was kind of a poor cousin in it's effort.
I actually found this in a burned down bank when I was a kid, getting into things I wasn't supposed to.
Thanks for the reply,
Pat
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Posted 06/08/2021   11:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add erilaz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's my Esperanto postcard with a Berkeley postmark advertising the Panama–California Exposition, 11 Dec. 1916. I guess there was a push to get more visitors in the final month of the fair.



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Posted 06/10/2021   4:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The PCE has always been second rate to the PPIE. It will continue to be second rate for many reasons.


One reason I failed to list is that, not one, but three class 1 railroads got together to run trains from Chicago specifically to take folks to the Golden Gate International Exposition (GGIE) in San Fransisco in 1939-40. (That and the NY Worlds Fair again kept the spotlight on all things SF and nothing SD.) It was named the Exposition Flyer. After the fair it was to be discontinued, but proved so popular as competition to the City of San Francisco Train, it was continued. This collaboration by the three was improved to the famous California Zephyr which was an all streamlined train which ran until 1970 and which has been replaced by Amtrak with a train of similar routing and the same name.

San Diego? It had no transcontinental trains to it. All the transcontinental trains ran to Los Angeles and from there you need to change over to the Small run, 126 miles, San Diegan. It's first Transcontinental train arrived in 1885, a real second rate route. By 1890, Santa Fe saw the light and cancelled to train, picking Los Angeles as the rightful southern US transcontinental endpoint. Even today Amtrak routes you into the greater LA basin en route to San Diego.

San Diego, the city, is the Tinus Osendarp answer to the question, "when Jessie Owens won Gold, who placed third twice?"


Here is a bit more on that train: http://goscf.com/t/49117
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 06/10/2021 4:15 pm
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Posted 06/10/2021   7:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's DEAD- stop kicking

"But at least it's a nice SD Expo. Sta. cancel on a Scott 397."

I have a booklet somewhere around here about the SD expo that was produced by the committee. I'm sure it say's it will be the best ever.I'll scan a few pages the next time I find it.
Pat

P/S- Thanks for the info.

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Posted 06/11/2021   04:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Before you knock the Panama-California Expo you need to understand a bit of little known history. The City of San Diego had planned, fundraised, and announced their fair more than a year *before* the Panama-Pacific Expo was even considered. San Francisco simply decided they deserved to hold their own World's Fair first and moved ahead, fully knowing it would crush the plans of the smaller city. It's little wonder that San Diego was outraged and refused to cancel their event, despite being "asked". Both fairs went forward, but of course, most of the major exhibitors shifted north to the larger event (many were strong-armed), and not unexpectedly, the crowds chose to visit the better funded and marketed fair in San Francisco.

San Diego did get the last word, though. Since theirs was a municipal event, the city decided to extend the fair for the 1916 season, and did manage to recoup some of the losses from low attendance in 1915.

All those great things everyone ascribes to the fair in San Francisco would have been in place in San Diego, if it had been allowed to fully realize its plans without competition. The Bureau of Engraving & Printing had exhibits at both fairs, btw.

And that's the rest of the story.

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Edited by GregAlex - 06/11/2021 04:56 am
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Posted 06/11/2021   06:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Before you knock the Panama-California Expo ...

Amen! Let's celebrate the half-full portion of the glass!

To expand on GregAlex's post, here is a sampling of about half of the many advertising slogan cancels from around California:

Columbia Postal Supply Company:


International Postal Supply Company:


Universal Stamping Machine Company:


Obtaining a full set can be quite challenging. These and the rest of the slogans are highly collectible and well documented in the philatelic literature including in William Bomar's "Postal Markings of United States Expositions"
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Posted 06/11/2021   09:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Revenue N Covers to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The New Mexico building included an incredible scale model of a reconstructed Pecos Pueblo based on Dr. A V Kidders ongoing work there at the time. I've been trying to find good images recently with no luck yet (hoping for a rppc). A surprising number of short films of the PCE can be found online. Andy
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Posted 06/11/2021   4:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It's DEAD- stop kicking



Actually I disagree. It, the PCE, is far from dead.

There have been many fairs and expositions over the years. They all can be sorted into two camps. Those with stamps, coins and other collectibles issued and those without. Within those two groups, especially the ones with stamps and coins issued, there is a range of material and interest. That interest is reflected in how much detail is contained in Scott, but information on each can be found in many sources.

Now I cannot answer why, but I think the PPIE had one of the largest distributions of "advertising" slogan cancels not only geographically but time-wise as well, about two years of run up, 1913 and 1914, plus during 1915, the year of the fair. I do not think any other exposition or fair exceeded that. That said, I think there has been and currently is more interest in the 1892 Columbus World's Fair. The 1898 Trans-Mississippi stamps beat the PPIE hands down as well. These last two plus the 1901 have even had the stamps "reissued." For the PPIE, post exhibtion recognition was just of a building.

A good comparison is the "competing" GGIE and NYWF of the 1939-40 time period. West coast verses east coast, both had stamps and interest remains generally geographic to this day. Which one is better? The GGIE of course, as I got to listen to the stories of family members who attended and review the goodies they received, won or otherwise brought home. Yes, I do realize my answer may have a bit of bias to it.

Likewise, while San Francisco scored well with the PPIE, it did not always score well. It had the California Midwinter International Exposition (1894) but there is little current interest in that compared with the PPIE and GGIE.

Now if you were to compare the PCE with other fairs and exhibitions that had no stamps or coins, it would hold its own quite well. What you did is compare apples and oranges , yes both grow on trees but they are quite different and both are good.
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Posted 06/11/2021   4:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Now you've changed sides! And, I just meant you coming back for another round of PCE bad.
(Just kidding, please don't go off on me)

As you can see from the coin example, I take a slightly less than serious approach to some things.

I've always enjoyed learning about both exhibitions.
I enjoy all the other examples people have put up. Have some more around here somewhere, and will share next time I find them.

Anyway, I'm glad I started the conversation. (Can we get an "I'm just happy to be here Smillie)
Pat

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Posted 06/11/2021   5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You have far more PCE slogans than I. I have an exhibition cancel somewhere as well.

For me the PPIE is not about the PPIE stamps issued 1-1-1913 and beyond. I am after the stamps issued 1-1-1913 for parcel post usage used from the PPIE Model Post Office. I do have some. What really draws me to the PPIE is the Panama Pacific Die Proofs (P2a) of Q1-12 and JQ1-5. I will not show any of that here in this thread as this is a PCE thread not a PPIE one.

Yes the government did exhibit stuff at the PCE, just the second rate broken stuff. You know, the bell with the crack was sent down for display, The Liberty Bell. If it wasn't cracked SF would have gotten it.

What this thread and your question actually underscores is the behind the scenes and behind closed doors politicking which goes on even today. No era seems to have a monopoly upon such gamesmanship.
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Posted 06/11/2021   7:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What I don't know about PPIE/PCE would fill a library.

What I know about philately (stamp collecting )would fit in a teacup dipped from the ocean.

This is as close to what you referenced on Q's as I have (no model po)
I'll move my future shares on PPIE to a new post.
Best to you,
pat

San Jose, Cal. Oct.1,1913. Flag cancel type A26
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Posted 06/12/2021   3:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
These and the rest of the slogans are highly collectible and well documented in the philatelic literature including in William Bomar's "Postal Markings of United States Expositions"


The Bomar book is fascinating and is a bounty of information about expo cancels. I don't have a personal copy, but John maybe you can do a quick count of PCE vs. PPIE slogan cancels. I'm kind of curious now.
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Edited by GregAlex - 06/12/2021 3:45 pm
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Posted 06/26/2021   3:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So this thread goaded me into buying the 2nd edition of the Bomar book. In the back, there is some interesting statistical info, comparing the various expositions.

As you would expect, the 1915 PPIE in San Francisco did far better than San Diego's PCE in attendence: 18.7 million vs. 2.8 million. PPIE also made money (one of the few fairs that did), bringing in about $13 million, while the PCE lost $145,000 -- which was still fairly respectable, considering the horrendous losses of most fairs.

But, there's one more consideration. 20 years later, San Diego hosted the California-Pacific International Expo on the same site, using many of the old PCE buildings. The 1935 expo brought in 13.9 million visitors and made nearly $4 million! They definitely had the last word!
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Edited by GregAlex - 06/26/2021 3:50 pm
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Posted 06/26/2021   6:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info. Where did you get the book from? Hard copy or Cd?

Gold Gulch, located within the World's Fairgrounds in Balboa Park, was a 21-acre (0.085 km2) Old West mining town-ghost town re-creation for fairgoers to experience the atmosphere of a mining boomtown Gold Gulch was described in the Exposition Guide Book as "a moviefied" version of riproaring '49 days.

(not my ticket, found online)


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