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Genuine Or Fournier/Hirschberger Forgery?

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Pillar Of The Community

Canada
1199 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   06:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Just_fella to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Not really sure what to think here.
over-inking could be the issue (first thought)
Most certainly could be a forgery, (probably should have been my first thought)
I don't think it looks like a Hirschburger, I'm just learning so could be wrong
http://stampforgeries.com/forged-st...-indo-china/

Either way I'm happy with it. Didn't cost me anything and it will add something I didn't have before!

Just trying to correctly Identify what's going on here
No value to it just something for me.

I would appreciate opinions, what do you think?

Thank you for looking!

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Edited by Just_fella - 08/18/2021 1:00 pm

Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
5966 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   06:33 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Peace and commerce Hirschberger forgeries are 13.5 x 14, genuine, 14 x 13.5.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1199 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   07:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thanks geoffha,
Are there any other potential known forgers to watch for?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2573 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   07:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Heavily inked but this is genuine.

All the Hirschbergers have the same characteristics.

In genuine stamps, the hands on the central staff normally show fingers clearly; Hirschbergers might show a partial line or two on each hand only, if anything.

On the genuine, the central fruit on the cornucopia has specific shading where Hirschbergers have just a blob.

Genuine: the little fruit to the left of the above is a circle or nearly so. Hirschbergers show a half round attached to/not separated from the cornucopia.

Genuine: the dot pattern has regular pattern of circles the same size that align inside the background space they are in. Hirschbergers have irregular circles arranged in groups within each background space. With the heavy inking here, the difference can't be seen.

It doesn't apply here, but the Hirschberger colors are very distinctive with the 20c value and above that do not match genuine shades/colors. This shows it well, at least on my monitor. Your mileage may vary:
http://goscf.com/t/77961

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Edited by hy-brasil - 08/18/2021 07:13 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1199 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   07:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great detailed pointers thanks hy-Brazil!
To be honest I didn't look for those things, didn't know too (I will from now on :)

( first thing I noticed was that her right Breast didn't look normal.
The shape and cut to the armpit/shoulder looked wrong to me on the forgery's
That's one of the main things used to come to the conclusion it didn't look like a Hirschberger, Knowing what I know now it was basically a guess)

Forgery


Genuine


Thanks for the help it's greatly appreciated!!

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
564 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   10:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jconey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, the breasts are the first thing I noticed too...
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1199 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   10:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I didn't wanna sound like a typical guy....
But that was the area that first caught my attention (the forgery seemed too straight in the lines, no curves)
I don't think it's a way to identify them looking at another genuine copy!
Just something to keep me occupied

This is what I mean..

Forgery


Genuine

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
5583 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   11:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the difference between a real stamp on the left and the Fournier Forgery on the right .

To answer the above question the only forgery is the Fournier issue.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1199 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   11:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks floortrader,
Appreciate the comparison picture! I can see all the things hy-Brazil mentioned
I think I could spot one now, and think I can safely call this one over-inked!

I can say I'm happy about it :) I know it's nothing special but I think it looks good when I flip to a page that has something different added
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
5583 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   11:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
PAGE OF Fournier Forgeries of INDO CHINA
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1199 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   12:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice!! Beautiful page!

One last question pertaining, does the method of detecting work with other colonies or specific to indo-China ?
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Edited by Just_fella - 08/18/2021 12:03 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
5966 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   12:05 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's the same for all of the Fournier/Hirschberger forgeries. When mint, they also have much whiter gum than the genuine.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1199 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   12:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good stuff to know!!
I think I have found 5 of them
And I think that also helped answered a couple possible surcharge questions from canton I may have had at some point
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
5583 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   12:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Most collectors can pick out most of the worlds forgeries if they have a real stamp next to the forgery .

That is why I try to collect both on the same page in my forgery collection . You would be surprise how cheap ,if not free , to get copies of damaged real stamp to use for comparnsion .
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1199 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   12:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I like that floortrader, it's a good idea
As my collection grows I'll plan to do that!!

If I change the title to something more toward Fournier/Hirschberger and less specific to indo-China
could I ask if the couple I've pulled out are indeed forgeries? I am learning but could be wrong (first day on the job)
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Edited by Just_fella - 08/18/2021 12:58 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
564 Posts
Posted 08/18/2021   2:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jconey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
All joking aside, this is an interesting conversation, Thanks for the information. I just looked at some that I have and will keep a look out for the things mentioned here. I don't collect foreign stamps (non-US I should say)... But I usually have a bunch from mixed lots that I sell. I do have an interest in counterfeits/forgeries.
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