Help With Year Of Cds On US Scott #1 Envelope

Does anyone know what year the CDS on this envelope might be from? The stamps are US Scott #1. Given the date (July 9) and the originating post office (Madison WI), it has to be 1848, 1849 or 1850. Deliveries of Scott #1 almost certainly didn't make it to Madison by July 9, 1847, and this stamp was demonetized on July 1, 1851. There is no CDS on the back from the receiving post office nor did the cover come with an enclosure.

The cover has a 2021 PF certificate asserting the stamps are a genuine usage, but the PF did not hazard a guess as to the year.

Thanks in advance!

Do you know if the PF was asked about the date? Or are you just assuming they should have routinely supplied one? If asked about a date, they could see if they have a record of period of use of the postmark handstamp. Beyond that:

The only way you and can nail it down is see if the recipient has some online information which brackets when the recipient lived on Rochester. There is the 1850 census information as one source if available online. Other than that if you want a year dated usage, you need to buy a usage with a year date on the envelope or on the still enclosed matter carried within the envelope.

The other clue is if you can find out if there was a period when the 10 cent was not available and two nickles needed to be used. Not definitive but can suggest a date.

Edit: I would still be too happy to have two four margin #1s on cover (not soaked to fill an album hole) to worry much about which year of the three they were used. It is nice.

Does not appear so. 574297

Try posting your inquire on Richard Frajola's chat board. Lot of postal history folks there who may be able to help you narrow it down. www.rfrajola.com

I see your cover in the USPCS 1847 cover census with no year assumed or assigned. Could be a tough nut to crack.

There is a very similar cover to yours in the census with a letter dated 1850:

This is all very helpful information. I very much appreciate the sources to pursue.

Good question why I care about the exact year given the 2 nice, well-margined #1's. Call me anal! I know the recipient was Cornelia Bristol. She was born in 1805 and died in 1886. She lived her entire life in upstate New York, the last 25+ years in the "NY State Lunatic Asylum." Given that, who did she know in Madison, WI?

Well, it turns out Cornelia had a brother, Charles Egbert Bristol, who (per an ancestry tree I found) was married in Madison in 1861 and lived there until his death in 1892. I suspect he sent the letter, but I can't find a record of him being in Madison prior to 1861. In the censuses, his occupation is listed as "agent" and "travel agt," so perhaps he traveled on business to Madison in the late 1840s? I'm thinking if I nail down the year, I might have a better chance of finding more information on him. On the other hand, a 3-year timeframe is not that wide a span to research.

It seems likely Cornelia Bristol went to the NY State Lunatic Asylum as she could not remember the year her brother sent her this letter after some time had passed after she received it.

I did post this inquire to Richard Frajola's chat board. That post narrowed the year to either 1849 or 1850. Someone on that chat board pointed out that July 9, 1848, was a Sunday. Post offices at that time were required to be open on Sundays, but only for about an hour so that people could pick up their mail after Sunday services. It does not seem that other postal services were offered on Sundays.

I don't think so. As noted by a careful reading of the replies on the Frajola board, Sunday does NOT eliminate 1848 as a possible year of use, it only reduces the odds considerably. Rochester being a large city, I suspect Sunday hours were somewhat longer than 1 hour, but I have no specific data, however note the 1847 Postal Laws volume, pages 7-8, particularly the first four lines at the top of page 8 in the last scan:





Two other thoughts come to mind:
1. Cancel color: Based on the few 5 and 10 cent uses listed on the U.S. Philatelic Classics Society census showing two colors of cancels, one might seek out more data from stampless covers in this era and see when color changes in cancels occurred there.

2. Stamp analysis. Specifically the the shade of the stamps and the progressive plate wear and cleaning cycles may point to a distinctive time periods - or eliminate the same.

And yes, somtimes a definitive year date cannot be determined.

I , too, would not rule out 1848 because it was a Sunday. Mail was accepted and p/m'ed on Sundays in this era. Also, what we consider holidays today (I suppose they did then, too) did not cause the PO to be closed. People collect 'calendars' - stamps postmarked with 366 different dated PM's - and, although tough to find, a complete collection (including 12/25 and 1/1, etc) can be had. Like John Becker said, your best bet may be to determine the year of the stamps based on impression, shades, etc. If there is a large dB of Madison postmarks, maybe you can date it by 'plating' the cancelling device. That seems like a lot of work that may well not pan out, though.

I am sorry I cannot be more helpful.

I think I'll just settle for sometime between 1848 and 1850. Madison WI was a smallish town - in 1850, its population was 1,525 - but the postal regulations required post offices to be open on Sundays no matter the location. Maybe it is less likely the cover was posted on July 9, 1848, but it is still a possibility.

I appreciate the input on this cover. It's great to learn new information.

Regards,
Mike