Proposed Merger Of The APS And Asda

I don't disagree with your observations. Show-only dealers are less than 20 percent of the ASDA membership, although a good bit of activity is centrally focused on shows. That's the reason there needs to be due diligence on the financials, etc of the ASDA before we get into a more detailed plan.

The current show model is unsustainable and over time, the concentration of dealers doing only shows is going to keep shrinking. The real estate charges are a pretty contentious issue. The additional space required for frames impacts the cost, but the frame charges are rarely more than the cost of paying for judges and awards. Dealers, understandably, resent subsidizing that space.

Scott

Scott

One dealer, A&D Stamps (We carry the world) is, I think, a major draw to stamp shows. They stock most everything and is the best organized seller of under five dollar individual stamps of which I am aware. Normally the booth is at 75-100% capacity for much of a show. He gets the buying folks into the door so other dealers may have a chance to sell to that clientele. Alas, Jim has decided it is time to scale back and move into semi-retirement. A decades long fixture it is amazing, incredible in fact that he is still going at 92 years old. I do believe that departure may be solidly noticed by other dealers in terms of sales made.


Edited to add "er" to deals.

"He gets the buying folks into the door so other deals may have a chance to sell to that clientele."

Many of the other dealers viewed it as he monopolized the buyers.

Sigh.

Then perhaps they should increase their material or have better items?

I realize I am "just" a revenue collector, but I have been to many shows where dealers simply didn't have anything for me to even look at, and I have several distractor collections and I am always looking for cheapie stamps (calendar collections for example).

Those same dealers need to look inwards and ask why they don't have material for buyers looking to trade green stuff for great stamps. I am certainly not handing some of them money for their scintillating personalities

We tried to get Jim and crew (A&D) to NewMexPex but there was always a bigger show for them scheduled the same week. It really is amazing how much material they bring every week. I don't remember the number, but Jim told me they go through 1000s of 102 cards a week restocking just to keep up with their sales.

I have not been to that many shows but A&D was always there. If there was a dealer with a desire, they could replicate his model.

I suspect when someone sat down at his table they were llikely going to find something. This would not be true for most other dealers who carried much less stock.

Hmmmm …….. let's do the math….. 3000 102 cards @ $5 vs three sales @ $500……hmmmm …. I wonder who has the right idea?

I think the "Jim" model is found odorous by some other sellers because it requires a lot of actual effort.

Morning all,

From the point of view of a long time collector in this hobby for the fun and enjoyment of this activity, neither the APS or the ASDA are blemish free in their efforts to keep bad actors from preying on us relative amateur participants in this activity.

Granted, in my opinion, the APS historically does a much better job of protecting the interests of us amateurs than the ASDA can probably ever do. The primary goal of the ASDA is the sustainability and therefor profitability of its members. The goal of the APS is to be the home of all collectors protecting their interests. The APS only fails in doing this when it puts its organizational needs first and the collector's interest second.

Both organizations are struggling to remain relevant with our changing times as they are old school brick and motor groups trying to catch up in this digital age. The passage of time will tell us how successful they will be in this effort.

To put financials aside for the moment (and that's a big aside, since it's probably what's driving the whole merger) -

ASDA represents sellers. APS represents buyers. (I'm oversimplifying here, but you get the point.)

ASDA tries to keep sellers honest and in line. When they fail, it's nice to have APS acting (in theory) as a backstop, or a sort of organizational recourse if an ASDA member got away with something.

Not great for the buyers if both parties are represented by the same organization. Am I missing something?

Yes, yes, at the APS GASS, Jim had three, count them, three staff, two with handguns and one with a sword, bazooka slung over the shoulder, forcibly herding the collectors to his booth.

No, those poor misguided collectors actually went to the corner where Jim was set up by their own power and choice. His breath of material being the unfair (?) draw.




Sorry rogdcam, you are off quite a bit. I said many go to Jim's booth as he carries lots of stamps under $5.00. Those fill a lot of walk up want lists. HOWEVER, his stock is not at all limited nor majority $5.00 and under. He is well stocked with over $5 up into the hundreds of dollars goodies with a selection of mint and used for the entire range. Plus he has built his clientele up over many years as he does mail order as well when not doing shows. That three sale dealer is left in the dust at the end of the day.

Remember, after you have your US 85A and C3a there still are thousands of US stamps to finish the collection for which you must rub shoulders of the lowly unwashed lower end dealers.

Edit: Spelling and to add a response to rodgcam's below comment. You are not in error, rather you understated the financials of the sales and average 102 card value. The business model is working quite well, it is just the underlying human model is 92 years old. Plus he keeps Webster Stickney, at 91, from being the oldest active dealer.

One of the humorous moments of any show is the opening bell, after which a dozen or more collectors will literally run to that booth to get one of the available seats. However to say that he "draws people in" implies that without him they would not be there. I doubt that is true for more then a very small number of collectors. And there are other dealers with very large worldwide stocks, such as Michael Ball and Henry Gitner. And some with very large US stocks as well.

I was making a broad point that Jim does better than others that have less stock and perhaps put in less effort. I thought that it would be clear but obviously not. How about "Jim has stamps at all price points AND a tremendous mail order base"? Is that OK to say? Make more corrections as necessary. I am going to eat lunch and finish working out. Will check back if I need to make corrections. Many thanks.

I know how this is supposed to sound, but it's a contradiction. The organizational needs of the APS are protecting the collectors' interests.




We'd only be struggling to remain relevant if we weren't willing to adapt. I was brought in specifically to fix a financial problem and transform the organization. I wrote this script six months after I started with our first strategic plan. We were debt free less than five years after it passed and instituted a number of digital efforts to make the organizational manageable financially without asking for higher membership dues.

I agree that organized philately in general is overdeveloped and undercapitalized. It's robbed them of the nimbleness necessary to adapt in changing times. We're two decades too late to "embrace the digital age" and instead need to see how our underlying mission of protecting collectors can be done in the world as it is.




Today, the APS Dealer Member program has more than twice the membership of the ASDA. The overlap in the respective memberships is approximately 80-90 percent. The net effect of combining the memberships only serves to take the badge of the ASDA off some expelled members of the APS. Virtually no member of the APS (including me) or the APS Board would ever support watering down the Bylaws or the Code of Ethics.

Collectors in the marketplace are smart enough to decide whether they want to seek out vetted dealers versus anonymous sellers online. They are largely bereft of that option today.

It helped to have some generous benefactors to assist with paying off the loans to retire the debt.

Let's be real and recognize that organizational needs would include (quite rationally) the desire of the director to protect his $200k/year job as well as the other paid employees wishing to retain theirs. So, there will be tension at times between the goals of protecting collectors' interests and not alienating dealers after an APS/ASDA merger in order to enable the organization to ultimately survive. Love of the hobby only goes so far if the ability to put bread on the table gets threatened.

Isn't it about time to close this thread?