Certification Opinion Sought

Question for the group:

If you had a very rare stamp previously certified genuine and fault free by one of the big 3 and someone wanted to resubmit the item to another big 3 company and knowing that an unfavorable opinion or mention of a ding by the new company might have an impact of not just hundreds or thousands of dollars but potentially tens of thousands of dollars—-would you take that chance?

Just curious

It would depend on many things.

1 - Has the stamp been in my possession ever since it was last certified (aka I know everything that has happened to it)
2 - Was the latest cert from PF (the gold standard for truly valuable stamps)
3 - How old is the latest cert (technological changes impact defect detection and thus cert decisions)
4 - Does the latest cert fail to mention visible characteristics (what's worth mentioning has changed over time)

To me, that would depend on the dating of the certificate. If it is a 21st century dated cert, I might hesitate on sending the stamp in again for certification due to the concern you mention. Generally speaking, a 20th century dated cert is pretty much disregarded by a buyer these days so, if you are selling the stamp the buyer would most certainly want to send it for a new cert anyway with return privilege. I am sure you will get many opinions on this and this is just that - my opinion only. Personal note: When I have sent valuable stamps back in again for certification I have been both elated and depressed by the results. And the waiting period is stressful regardless. But at least you then know what you have.

All valid points. What if the certified stamp was encapsulated. Would you feel differently?

Rhett: that is the point. Assuming that the item was in your possession the whole time, do you really know what you have? You are talking about 2 separate opinions. Suppose the recertification was about trying to bump the grade from 90-95. And let's say on resubmission nothing about the opinion has changed except you got the bump? Or your 90 became an 85. The stamp is still the same.

I understand the importance of perception and the general trend of society that everything new is better, smarter, etc than the past. But that's no guarantee that a certificate minted today will be the same if resubmitted 6 months later.

I suspect that many of the factors mentioned by you and the previous responder May occaisionally subtlety influence the opinion of the new expertizer in ways not meant to be intentional. We all are human after all.

IMO, a new cert at every sale of five or six figure stamps comes with the territory. You MIGHT get away with skipping a new cert if the current one is very fresh (a year or two) and is from the PF (see this discussion https://goscf.com/t/83255) but I would want a fresh cert.

If you make the sale with an old cert that gets overturned later, at the very least it would leave a bad taste and at worst it could prompt some type of action.

I'm not clear on the hypothetical fact pattern here. Is "someone wanted to resubmit" referring to the owner, just checking on the item, or is the "someone" a buyer?

I can't imagine that I would do it outside the context of a pending sale, and at that point, the buyer gets a say (if they are adamant, and I want the sale to go through).

As I see it, if a prospective buyer wants a new opinion, you have no choice ... unless you want to keep the stamp. Nor, in this instance, should you expect to have any other choice.

funcitypapa, your edit after my last post makes it sound like the scenario you are describing is an owner resubmitting a stamp, just to see if they can get a higher grade. Is that what we're talking about?

Cjd: thank you for your response. Just trying to get a sense of the risk tolerance of the group. Say the cert was one of the 3 but not PF and resubmission was not forced by a sale situation. Would you pre-emptively take the chance of wasting a clean opinion and it's consequences for the potential gain from the same opinion but now by the PF?

Rhett: you mention the elation and depression from prior resubmissions. I wonder if you would be generous to share your general experience, WITHOUT naming names as to, in those cases that led to depression, how often this occurred between companies , as opposed to the same company over time, and how often it occurred within 5 years of a previous cert?

In general, I think that having more information is better.

But opinions, no matter how many you might have, may or may reflect actual reality.
For example, a doctor tells you that you have 6 months to live. So you get a second opinion, and that doctor tells you that you have 6 months to live. So you get a third opinion, and that doctor tells you that you have 6 months to live. The smart way to bet is that you are going to die within 6 months. But I am living proof that this is not always the case.

Point is, no matter how many certs a stamp/cover might have they are still just opinions that may or may not be correct. I also would not expect every cert to be in 100% agreement on every single detail or be written in the exact same way.

In a seller/buyer situation with a lot of money on the line, I think it might be wise to establish limits. I would agree on a new second opinion but limit cert shopping to 'the best of 2 out of 3'. So if second opinion concurs with first, both parties consummate the transaction. If the second opinion does not concur, a third opinion settles the transaction.

If I thought the buyer was going to ask for endless certs or was going to nit-pick each opinion to death, I would move just on.
Don

Papa, I have used PSE, PF, and PSAG for my resubmissions and have had elation and depression from experiences with each of them. The results have variously been on genuineness, soundness and grading opinions. The one trend I have noticed is that when sending a stamp with a cert from one house to another house for a new cert, there is a definite tendency to experience depression much more often than elation at the result. I will leave reasons for that to others to interpret, but that has definitely been my experience. Being a fast learner, I now send any recertifications/gradings to the same agency that issued the previous cert.

...and by extension, if you're a buyer, you should consider getting the opinion from another organization (unless it already has a PF cert, in which case, I think I'd rather have them revisit it).

Rhett,
Interesting observations.

I assume that organizations do a lookup for any previous opinions they have given and that this then influences their new opinion.

Is this a good thing?

I do not think it is a good thing if you are seeking to get as close to the truth as you can. But I agree that it is a good thing if you want to avoid any potentially bad news.
Don

Don, like you say, they are all just opinions, not necessarily (but usually) truth. I admit to trying to avoid bad news from a new opinion.

In my opinion it is a personal decision, and I wouldn't judge based on which someone chose, since the outcome could be the same anyway. Reminds me of the blue vs. red pill dilemma.

The consensus of a few philatelic professionals that I know is that numerical grades for the same stamp will be highest (most liberal) from PSAG and lowest from the PF (most conservative). PSE sits in the middle but closely aligns with the PF.

At least one very well respected and prominent philatelic dealer/agent that I know wants nothing to do with PSAG certs.