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Curious R19c Dt Determination By The Philatelic Foundation

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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 10/28/2023   5:04 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add revenuecollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I happened to be browsing recent revenue certs at the PF, and this one jumped out to me.

Cert # 596029.

Opinion:


Quote:
DOUBLE TRANSFER AT RIGHT.
AND WE ARE OF THE OPINION THAT
IT IS GENUINE, THE STAMP WITH A THIN SPOT. * * * * * * * * * *





This does not look like a double transfer to me in any way, shape, or form nor is it a position that has been reported by any of the specialists for inclusion in the plate variety database, i.e., there's been no confirming example.

This instead looks like a printing anomaly, a partial kiss impression where something bounced as paper went through the press.

Thoughts?

P.S. Just browsing the recent certs, there are an incredible number of extremely BAD 1st issue imperfs and part perfs submitted for certs, many with colors completely wrong. Has there been an Aldrich auction of revenue singles recently?...
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Edited by revenuecollector - 10/28/2023 5:09 pm

Bedrock Of The Community
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Posted 10/28/2023   5:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Kiss print.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 10/28/2023   7:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add m and m to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree, it is a kiss print.
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Posted 10/28/2023   8:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What year was the cert issued?
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Posted 10/28/2023   10:11 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What year was the cert issued?


The PF site doesn't provide dates of certs; you have to have the cert or an image of it to see the exact date.

However, given that I was browsing starting with the most recent, I would assume within the last year or so, if their uploading is reasonably up to date.

The most recent cert currently on the website is #598158, so #596029 would not be very long ago in the global scheme of things.
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Edited by revenuecollector - 10/28/2023 10:12 pm
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Posted 11/17/2023   1:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcanman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I believe this to be a partial double impression. They are very scarce, but do exist on both postage and revenue stamps of the 19th century. Probably occurred when the roller was just beginning to pass over the plate to create the impression, was then pulled back, the paper adjusted slightly and the run begun again.
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Posted 11/17/2023   2:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ZebraMan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What is the difference between a "kiss print" and a "partial double impression", or are they synonymous?
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Posted 11/17/2023   4:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
59. Doubled impressions: When paper passes twice through a press and the second pass is unintended, it is an error. But a variety exists that mimics the error, called a "kiss print," in which the plate stutters. The second impression produced is usually light, often inconsistent and not complete.


From the EFO Collector's Club.
https://www.efocc.org/Resources/Hot..._Type059.php

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Posted 11/17/2023   4:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamp in question is printed by flat plate.
The most recent posts seem to be going down a "rotary" process path.
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Posted 11/17/2023   7:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, you are correct - I should have used the more general definition for double impression (observation-based, not cause-based):

"A stamp that exhibits linear duplication in all or some part of the design, irrespective of the cause of such duplication".
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Posted 11/18/2023   10:47 am  Show Profile Check 3193zd's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 3193zd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So by txstamps post this is a double impression?
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Michael Darabaris
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Posted 11/18/2023   11:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just a general thought - it seems like with a kiss print you'd be more likely to get distortion than with a true double impression.

edit: My first reaction when I saw this was and still is, that this is a kiss print.
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Edited by txstamp - 11/18/2023 11:52 am
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Posted 11/18/2023   12:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have something similar on a 15 cent inland.
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Posted 11/18/2023   6:02 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is certainly way too blatantly obvious to be a completely unknown double transfer.
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Bedrock Of The Community
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Posted 11/18/2023   6:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely not a double transfer.
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Posted 11/19/2023   09:01 am  Show Profile Check 3193zd's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 3193zd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So stamp smarter doesn't give a definition for a kiss imprint only for a double impression and that seems to aline with what we are seeing here. how much of the design needs to be doubled before it is called a double impression?
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Michael Darabaris
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