First Flight Cover Question

I guess what I'm trying find out is if all first flight cacheted covers are philatelic?

What are the answers to these questions:
Can someone send a cover as regular business and it receives a first flight cachet?
Would the rate have been the same before the first flight? So his postage didn't need to change?
Could the sender have sent it as "airmail" but didn't know it was going to be direct service?

Others (like Kimo) might be able to give better answers, but I'll take a first stab at it.

1. I think that normally one would have to request the first flight cachet. Assuming that one had real personal or business mail to post on the day of a first flight, and requested the cachet, it might not be philatelic in the sender's eye, but it would be considered philatelic by most collectors.

2. Rates did not ordinarily change just because airmail service was being inaugurated. So it would depend.

3. That would require that airmail service was already being offered, and all that was changing was service to a new city. Whether it went on the plane providing that service, or another, would depend upon its ultimate destination. So it is always possible that someone might simply post a letter for "airmail" service, not caring or knowing what route it would take, and it ended up on a plane carrying first flight mail.

What if someone sent to this person regularly so they knew the postage requirement. Would someone have to go to the post office and apply the postage there or could they just dropped in the mailbox with stamp already on?

Airmail rates, like letter rates and postcard rates were widely known by the public. Stamps for these rates were readily available. So, yes, some small amount of letters could be among the philatelic mail of a first flight as a logical routing decision made by post office clerks.
Your question is rather coy. Do you have a specific cover in mind you are asking about? If so, please show it.


(Add: My post here assumed we would be seeing a domestic flight cover.)

I posted it earlier in the year and I couldn't find that thread. I had a few more questions on it since the last discussion.

The previous thread is here:
https://goscf.com/t/83111

So if your question is "Is this cover philatelic?", my gut instinct is "yes" based to a large extent that the sender and recipient are the same name.

WOW not paying attention! thanks John!

I was also suspicious that the sender's return address is New York City but it is postmarked San Francisco. Could happen if the man was traveling, but not common.
Third point, the envelope looks sealed and not cut open at the top or sides. Is that true? Again, plausible, but more likely philatelic when it is this way.

As an aside, here is the announcement card for sending for flight covers:

So these had to be prepared covers in advance to apply the proper rate and receive the cachet.

Zebraman, the sender did not have to be traveling to account for the difference between the return address and the SF postmark. Much like modern FDCs are sent to some specified location for getting a FDOI postmark, this cover was sent "under [another] cover" -- either singularly, or perhaps with several more -- to SF to get the First Flight postmark and cachet.

Now that we've been shown the cover in question, I do not see any doubt possible that this cover is philatelic.

But to be clear you could have a possible business cover with a first flight cachet?

3193zd, this does not appear to be posted as a "business cover." It is just a hotel envelope. There is no business "card" with this envelope. And as John noted, the sender and recipient are the same person, which does not indicate a business use. And as Zebraman notes, it appears to be sealed an unopened, another mark of philatelic use.

Guys I clearly understand this is not a business cover. I am just asking is it possible for such a thing to be? or are all cacheted covers are philatellic? Is the process to get a cacheted cover out of the normal process for sending a cover?

Perhaps it is time to embrace "the power of and." You asked if all cacheted covers are philatelic. Here, where the cachets are applied by postal authorities pursuant to specific instructions, I would say the answer to that is "yes," all such covers are philatelic. That does not mean, however, that such a cover could not contain ordinary personal or business mail content. That would be something of an oddity, but not impossible to imagine.

Basil

I agree with Basil 100% as did the two airmail guys I just had lunch with.
Don