UK 1913 King George V Watermark

I would like to show you these two stamps from UK 1913, both have a watermark...but again I found a labyrinth to classify them...could you give me some indication? Both watermarks look the same but I couldn't be sure...

The half penny stamp looks like a multiple cypher (SG wmk 103) but I'm not sure on the other.

'Simple Cypher' also known as 'Royal Cypher.'

@Bobby De La Rue,

I understand why you think this. The 'Multiple Cypher' has alternating offset lines of the watermark. These alternating lines 'overlap.' Tis overlap, however is relatively minor. The very close vertical spacing of these watermarks would mean the overlap to be almost complete. Consequently, this, only, can be the 'Simple Cypher' watermark. In both cases, the watermark is offset (nice how many times you can use this word and mean different things) on both stamps. The left stamp in the second picture (I think the order changed and it is the 1d red) does not appear to have any watermark to the left, suggesting this is from column 12 in the counter sheet.

The right stamp in the second picture shows a trace of the marginal 'POSTAGE' watermark. So, it is from column 1 in the counter sheet.

And to confuse everyone further, when I say the watermark is offset, that means the sheet was not fed into the press correctly. So, actually, it is the printing that is offset. But we blame the watermark anyway for going walkies.

I found this website https://www.dauwalders.co.uk/king-g...5-2252-c.asp , let's see if later I can see what type it corresponds to...

I am still trying to classify these stamps in more detail, thanks to the intervention of NSK, I know that they are the model SG351 and SG352 with Royal Cypher Watermark from the year 1912, but now I found myself with the challenge of color since I have seen that there are about 20 types. different greens and equally reds....a really extensive and complex range, where can I find guidance in this regard?

Bear in mind that trying to determine shades of used stamps can be fraught. Without wishing to discourage you, it might be worth your assembling a heap of these things before venturing into separating them into the numerous shades identified in the Gibbons Specialised.

I think NSK has previously shown mint copies of some or all of the shades on another thread.

When I had a whole heap of KG5 penny stamps I started to try and recognise the shades and confidently managed to identify about 3 more than are recognised in the SG catalogue. I think the question of shades is a bit subjective and also slewed by the light you are using, dirt and fading on the stamp, and your own eyes. I resorted to buying sheets from other collections and hoping the original owner had identified things properly. To identify the colours on machins I buy booklet panes which usually have unique combinations of stamps then I identify them in the catalogue and then look up the colour name. these panes then form my reference collection for the colours.

Used stamps may have the colour changed. That does not result in another 'shade.' There, however, are many more than 'three more shades' recognised by Stanley Gibbons. You can find long lists of 'unlisted shades' with Brandon certificates.

Stanley Gibbons use a reference guide with contemporary 'stamps' (more like seals) printed by the actual printers with inks used. What they list are those 'shades' and stamps are categorised as 'closest' shade in the reference guide. I do have a non-listed shade that Stanley Gibbons itself recognised as such. It is very different to the listed blue-green shade that it otherwise would be.