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Replies: 41 / Views: 2,925 |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
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Hey! I'm currently trying to investigate the legitimacy of a letter for a project I'm working on and was hoping someone with more knowledge about stamps could please help me with something. I have a letter that is dated as being written and sent from Chicago to Wisconsin in May 1992 - according to both the letter itself and the postal mark - but the stamp (a US homage to the Chinese New Year of the Rooster) was apparently only released on December 30th, 1992. Some seven months after it was seemingly affixed to this envelope. Is this cause for suspicion? Or did certain stamps sometimes hit the market sooner, dependant on what part of the USA one was in? Any help would be extremely appreciated! TYIA x  The stamp. "Issue Date: December 30, 1992" - according to MysticStamp.com
 The postal mark and stamp on the envelope in question
 The letter with date marked May 28th 1992
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts |
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Is it just the picture or is the stamp on the cover imperforate on the righthand side?
Would USPS have printed such a stamp 7 months ahead of its release date? |
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| Edited by NSK - 04/11/2024 1:55 pm |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
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@NSK Hey! I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but hopefully this image can clear it up a little and show the outline of the stamp. (I apologise for the frightfully low-quality pictures. I'm lifting them from a video)  I'm confused as to whether USPS would print such a stamp that early too! |
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| Edited by Snowphie - 04/11/2024 2:05 pm |
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts |
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That picture shows it has perforations on all sides. That was not very clear from the initial picture.
I do think the stamp was added at a later time (edit) and cancelled by another cancelling device than that applied the date. |
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| Edited by NSK - 04/11/2024 3:20 pm |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
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@NSK Thank you for your continued responses :) Sorry, but just to clarify: Are you saying that this envelope was likely faked then? I could see someone potentially ordering an unused 1992 stamp from ebay (without checking the actual date of its release) and then adding it to the enveloped down the line. I just wasn't certain whether such a thing would be worth the efforts. |
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts |
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I do not know if it is faked. Someone can have applied a cancelled stamp. However, someone can also have applied a new stamp and forwarded the letter.
I do question whether the wavy lines on the stamp match the few lines that appear to extend to the circular date stamp (CDS). However, the pictures are not clear enough to be sure.
The gap between the issue date you mention and I see also elsewhere, and the May date in the CDS and on the letter appears too large to explain an early release. It would not only mean the stamp was printed very far ahead of the release date and distributed that far ahead of the release date.
Availability of a variety of the stamp issued 30-12-1992 commemorating a Chinese zodiac year starting 23 January 1993 in May 1992 also appears strange. |
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| Edited by NSK - 04/11/2024 2:36 pm |
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
8579 Posts |
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In answer to the larger question, stamp issue dates can be quite fluid. British Commonwealth stamps, for example, were often made available to dealers in London before they were issued in the relevant colony. Catalogues often show both dates in such cirucmstances. |
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Pillar Of The Community
6328 Posts |
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Snowphie, A simple request, when showing a postal history question, it is better to show the entire piece, then a clear close-up of the specific issue.
That said, the Chicago dial is from a "Universal" machine and the killer appears to be from an "International" machine, thus extremely likely that the stamp had been added later to replace the original stamp or something else altered along these lines. Additionally, the killer lines are very unusual running off the right end of the stamp. Also as noted, while U.S. stamps typically leak out a few days in advance somewhere, they would never be out this far in advance.
You say you are taking this from a video, which hints at a scene from a movie and perhaps a poorly-researched movie prop. Bottom line, we need fuller imformation! |
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts |
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British stamps are supplied to dealers a few weeks before their official release date so they can prepare their FDCs for the official release date. |
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Pillar Of The Community
6328 Posts |
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Quote: British stamps are supplied to dealers a few weeks before their official release date so they can prepare their FDCs for the official release date. Not in the U.S. |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4289 Posts |
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[quoteIn answer to the larger question, stamp issue dates can be quite fluid. British Commonwealth stamps, for example, were often made available to dealers in London before they were issued in the relevant colony. Catalogues often show both dates in such cirucmstances.][/quote]
This topic involves a US Stamp, not anything to do with your comments of misdirection.
In the USA the first day of released date is carved in stone, but accidents happen. Early pre_FD date covers are quite popular when found, alas that is rarely found. |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4289 Posts |
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Additionally, specific to the stamp design in the OP, Scott does not listed a counterfeit of that design in the "CF" section, Postal Counterfeits. Edit: Quote: You say you are taking this from a video, which hints at a scene from a movie and perhaps a poorly-researched movie prop. Bottom line, we need fuller imformation!  |
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| Edited by Parcelpostguy - 04/11/2024 5:25 pm |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
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@John Becker Thank you so much for such an informative and kind response! :D Just to clarify, however, what do you mean by 'Universal' and 'International' machine...? This sure seems like a lot of effort to go through to fake something like this! It sounds like that may have been the case though. For context: The letter was screencapped from a TikTok video. Please pardon the ambiguity for the sake of preserving peoples privacy and such, but the story behind it was that it was sent to someone of some notoriety while they were in prison - and that it were proof that the incarcerated party had been in mutual correspondence with the sender (and had a 'relationship' with them - supposedly proven by other letters sent from the prison). This was somewhat revelatory. The content of the letter in this particular envelope didn't strike me as a particularly odd itself but, having studied similar relics before, I just wanted to make sure everything with the postage was legit (as sketchy envelopes have also circulated within this realm). The issuing date of December 31st compared to the May date immediately seemed weird but I felt maybe there was a logical explanation that someone with more specalised insight could provide. Previously the story surrounding the sender and recipient had appeared legit, but a few things have raised alarms since. Here is a wider image of the envelope as taken direct from the video (again, sorry for the ridiculously low-quality pictures which are probably akin to showing nothing!) 
And a close up of the killer lines (?):
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| Edited by Snowphie - 04/11/2024 5:30 pm |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4289 Posts |
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The cover lacks the usual and expected markings associate with ingoing and outgoing US prison mail. |
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Pillar Of The Community
6328 Posts |
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Universal = canceling machine made by the Universal Stamping Machine Co. International = canceling machine made by the International Postal Supply Co. They have different dial and killer configurations.
I doubt this is fakery with any intent to deceive in a philatelic sense. People with no knowledge of philately will doodle, try to put stamps back on covers, be creative, etc. Many incarceration facilities do not want stamps used on mail (incoming or outgoing) as contraband may be hidden under the stamp. Accordingly, many such facilities use embossed envelopes. It is possible the inspectors peeled the stamp and someone attempted a restoring replacement and choose poorly. It may have been far more "legit" with the stamp missing to show haw mail is handled. |
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| Edited by John Becker - 04/11/2024 5:49 pm |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
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@Parcelpostguy That's true for some inmate mail, absolutely. However these are some other envelopes (with letters) sent to the incarcerated party from my own personal collection of related-artefacts and research materials:  The lack of any kind of prison stamp on the front is therefore not a cause-for-concern here. Even letters mailed out from this particular prison don't always have a prison stamp on them (at least they didn't in the early-mid 90s) |
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| Edited by Snowphie - 04/11/2024 5:59 pm |
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Replies: 41 / Views: 2,925 |
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