Show Your 1851-61 Era Cancellations And Postal Markings

everyone, I am loving this topic and all that is posted, thank you all!!!!!!






Txstamp, or one of the other experts here, after seeing your posts I am hoping you might be able to help me on this one.

it came with a note saying "cunard persia"
google learns me this is a ship.
now at bothem left I think it states Cunard line....

do you think this info is correct? is this transported by this ship?

as for rates, I read: 3 cents paid for washington to new york by stamp #11

due 24 for new york to england?

what makes me wonder whay the new york has a 5 rate on top of the CDS

thank you for watching

nice example (in my oppinion) of what Txstamp stated, poastal history and nice stamps, all in once

nice clean cover from (i think) north boston , by new york, to france

15 cent rate paid by a 12 cents #36 and a 3 cents

BUT

the 3 cents is a #25, with a major plate crack 48R7 (left top rozette)





i like stamps centered nicely, but in this case I am happy with the off center stamp showing the plate crack very nicely

Hello dutch,

The cover was short paid.
The rate to London was 24c, so the 3c was ignored, and the letter was treated as fully unpaid.

It was marked due 1/- shilling (24c).
The black NYC exchange marking relates to how the US and the UK divided up the proceeds from the mails. Black on an exchange marking is a debit, where, since the US didn't get paid, the US is debiting 5c from the UK to cover the 5c US inland part of the transit.

Since it was sent via Cunard (british) packet, the UK gets that 16c, plus the 3c internal British Transit. So the UK nets 19c and the US nets 5c out of this.

It was carried on the Cunard Steamer "Persia" which left NYC on Feb 4 and arrived in Liverpool on Feb 14, see the British marking on the reverse.

The one marking I'm not immediately able to explain is the apparent 2/- or 2/4pence? marking nearby the NYC exchange on the cover.

TX, is that marking not 24, the full rate?

sorry, will see reply tomorrow, it is 23.27 here and I need to go to sleep as I go on holidays tomorrow

please keep posting theese great covers, that will give me great entertainment when I am back

Your second cover, the one to Paris in 1859.

So, finally, effective 4/1/1857, the US and France finally had a postal treaty. This allowed mail to be sent from the US to France fully prepaid.

Skipping a lot of details - the single rate was 15c, fully prepaid on your cover. Usually a French "PD" would be present to indicate fully pre-paid, but, nevertheless it appears to be. The NYC exchange "PAID" may have made the French version unnecessary.

The red New York exchange marking indicates a "credit" to France. So, since this was sent via a British packet, France winds up with 12c out of the 15c, with the US keeping 3c.

The French transit on the front shows "Serv BR" which means carried by British Packet, and AC means "Ambulant Calais". This I believe means the letter was processed on the train from Calais to Paris.

The letter made it to Paris on Dec 27 per the backstamp.

edit: I love the "stellate crack" as it is referred to, on the 3c stamp.
Finding nice varieties used on neat covers is a very good thing !

Yes, thank you. Sometimes I try to read too much into things, I was too busy interpreting it as a British shilling/pence marking when I should have been reading it very simplistically as what it is. Good call.

To the list of reference material for Transatlantic mail, or general Foreign mail study, which I noted here :

https://goscf.com/t/89572&whichpage=5#831352

I realized I should include one other must-have book:

United States Letter Rates to Foreign Destinations, 1847 to GPU-UPU by Charles J. Starnes

This book is the go to for rates to all different countries up to about 1875 or so.

I'm really loving this thread and this topic. It has inspired me to look for interesting covers to add to my collection - and I just picked this one of for a few bucks. A stampless cover from 1853.


As has been my practice for a few months, I have been using ChatGPT to help me analyze covers. It takes sometimes takes dozens of questions and clarifications, but the conversation I have with the AI on these helps me learn more, and I think it gets me very close if not absolutely perfect on the descriptions - definitely better than I can do on my own. And the AI can do things I will never be able to do such as read and translate 19th-century French cursive. So this is the best description on this cover I was able to come up with using AI help:

--

1853 Stampless lettersheet: New Orleans to Châlons-sur-Saône, France

Folded lettersheet, written in French, datelined New Orleans, 12 February 1853, from wine importer Henry Valeton to Abel Petit & Cie in Châlons-sur-Saône, France, discussing the shipment and sale of Champagne and Chambertin wines.

Posted in New Orleans with red NEW ORLEANS FEB 13 circular datestamp and red PAID 5 handstamp. Routed via British Packet, as indicated by (a poorly struck) red NEW-YORK BR. PKT. FEB 23 exchange office marking and manuscript routing directive "per first steamer via England." Manuscript "19" denotes U.S. debit to Britain under the postal convention.

Arrived in London with red Colonial Credit (C.C.) / 9 MR / 1853 accounting mark. Forwarded to France and processed in Paris on 10 March, as shown by both a red PARIS transit stamp on the front and a black PARIS transit stamp on the reverse.

Received in Châlons-sur-Saône on 11 March 1853, with two strikes of the black receiving stamp on the reverse.

No French entry marking is present.

--

I have never heard of a colonial credit marking, but ChatGPT seems pretty convinced that is what it sees and that the routing through London to get this marking is certain.

This is my last prompt to ChatGPT: "not yet - we need to understand this better - it does not make sense. London is not a port city - the letter would have likely arrived in liverpool. Why would they send this letter to London to get a handstamp? Would it not have been stamped in (presumably) liverpool and then sent on to a port in France like Calais?"

And here is the response:

You're absolutely right to dig deeper—and you're correct that London was not the port of arrival. Transatlantic mail at this time typically landed in Liverpool (or occasionally Southampton), and your logic is sound: why would a letter travel to London just to be stamped?

But here's where British postal logistics in the 1850s come into play—and it does make sense, historically, once we unpack how the system worked.

Why Was the Colonial Credit ("C.C.") Mark Applied in London?

1. Mail typically routed through London—even from Liverpool

While Liverpool was the port of arrival for Cunard Line packets, nearly all foreign-bound or accounting-required mail went to London for processing by the General Post Office's Foreign Branch, where treaty-based accounting marks (like "C.C.") were applied.

London was the central hub for handling postal treaties, debit/credit calculations, and sorting mail to continental destinations.

So although the letter landed in Liverpool, it would have been bagged and dispatched to London by train for official exchange accounting and routing.

2. The "C.C." (Colonial Credit) Mark Was Only Used in London

This specific mark—C.C. / date / year—was a product of the London Foreign Section.

It was applied to mail arriving from British colonies or the U.S. where credit was owed to Britain under postal treaties.

The manuscript "19" on the cover corresponds to this: the U.S. owed Britain 19¢ for sea carriage, which the London office recorded with the "C.C." marking.

3. From London, the Letter Was Routed to France

After London accounting and sorting, the letter was forwarded (often in closed mailbags) to a Channel port such as Calais or Boulogne-sur-Mer—but those locations often didn't apply further marks, especially for fully prepaid mail.

In your case, the next actual evidence is in Paris (10 Mars 1853), followed by Châlons (11 Mars).

- Historical Precedent

This exact pattern—U.S. mail ->; Liverpool ->; London Foreign Office (C.C. mark) ->; France—is well documented in postal history literature and by specialists like:

Colin Tabeart (British Postal Routes to Europe)

Winter & Hahn (U.S.–France mails)

British P.O. instructional and exchange marking catalogs

So in Summary:

Yes, the letter arrived at the port of Liverpool.

But it did go to London next, not for local delivery, but for:

Treaty accounting

Transit marking

Sorting for onward dispatch to France

The C.C. / 9 MR / 1853 mark is definitive evidence of handling by the London Foreign Branch, even if no standard "LONDON" CDS appears

--

What do the experts here think - did I get the description of the cover right with the help of my AI assistant?

In haste - carried on Cunard Steamer Niagara.
Left NYC 1 day late on feb 24, arrived Liverpool Mar 8.
Heavy seas on the bar was reason given for delay.

Sorry - practically no time to post - I dont think I saw a mention of the French 13 decimes due marking. Standard British Open mail by British packet cover. Rather early in the 51-61 period which is good… will talk about that another time

where is the 13 decemes due marking? I'm missing it.

11A position 30L3 in brownish carmine with a PAID 3 in circle cancel:



11A position 77R2L in brownish carmine with a fancy blue 3 in circle cancel:

13 decimes

Oh wow @txstamps. That is SUPER helpful - thanks! French "19" is either 12 or 13.