Collecting By Engraver

I've started looking at engraver signatures on proof sheets but thought it was worth a separate topic. I'd appreciate comments.


Yves Baril?

https://goscf.com/t/48975

lithograving & jjarmstrong47 - I believe that despite what the phil-ouest.com entry indicates, the 1945 France Oradour stamp was actually designed and engraved by French artist Raoul Serres (1881-1971), and not Achille Ouvré. In evidence: The stamp itself bears Serres's signature, and also here is an image of the signed artist die proof bearing Serres's signature (image from delcampe.net; not from my own collection).

- nethryk

Thanks for the correction nethryk, I was following the phil-ouest.com
http://www.phil-ouest.com/Timbre.ph...Oradour_1945
blindly but should have noticed it after jjarmstrong47 posted
those sharp scans.
Oh well one less for Ouvré one more for Serres .

https://goscf.com/t/9106&whichpage=183#423239

jjarmstrong47: The initial is that of Alfred Bouchette, a VP at Canadian Bank Note, Ottawa. When a proof is returned from Post Office, Alfred would initial it and pass it on to the Engraving Manager. Engraver/s almost never signed proof sheets; Siderographer/s may initial them after proving the sheet.

cNA

@cNA, it's great we have your expert knowledge regarding
the steps taken before it finally gets to the actual
printing stage.

jjarmstrong47: your posting: "I acquired quite a few Canadian revenue stamps recently, such as this one:
Can anyone direct me to a reference for finding the engraver/designer/printer details on Canadian revenues?"

I have not seen any work done on the names of engravers for the early Canadian Revenue stamps. The QV (later issue), KE VII, KG V issues were all done in New York at ABNC. There will be several parts to a stamp like the one you have shown.

First there would be a standalone portrait done by a portrait engraver (the Chalon head you show), without any background. Then a new die with the portrait and would be added to it, the background and perhaps common elements on the new die; this will involve a letter engraver, a scroll engraver etc.,

ABNC did record such events in a card it maintained called the "Index Copy"; I thought you had mentioned it before in your postings. If you have not seen one tell me and I will get an image posted for you.

The Index Copy would only be maintained for a particular stamp and not for Portraits, but generally, the name of the portrait engraver can also get mentioned which is a boon.

Your first port of call should be to get the ABNC sale catalogue (1990) and see if any Canadian Index cards relating to Revenue Stamps were sold; if they were, then it may lie buried in collections; you can also ask Canadian Auction houses if they have handled Canadian Index cards relating to Revenue Stamps post 1990.

The stamp that you show may have had input from three engravers.

cNA

Nethryl, you are right, of course. I must be really losing the plot. I was looking at the signature on the stamp and still didn't notice. Gibbons only gives it as engraved by Serres but as there is only one name on it, we can assume he did both. Now to go and hang my head in shame.

Thanks for that information, Canadian. I read somewhere that the Canadian proofs were withdrawn from the ABNCo sale because the Canadian archives made an offer for them all. They have stated that they are not going to update the archive website and if I remember rightly, though I don't trust my memory any more, the reason was because they had so much new material they were going to eventually produce a completely new site.

There are a lot of proofs on the current site but I can't remember seeing and revenues.

According to Phil-Ouest http://www.phil-ouest.com/Timbre.ph...ice_ambulant and my 1968 Michel Europa

France Scott 472 was engraved by Pierre Gandon



France Scott 587 was engraved by Jules Piel




Was there any reason why the engravers did not include
their names on these stamps?
I would guess that 99.9% of French engraved stamps have
the engraver included somewhere.

Now maybe they are there and I can't see it my eyes arent waht they used to be.

For example the stamp below.
I looked and looked on the lower half of the stamp and found nothing
but as I was ready to give up I saw DECARIS on the upper right.

France Scott 497



Oh, those French they stick their names all over the place,
not like the orderly Austrians or Swedes or Danes where the designer is on the bottom left,
the engraver bottom right and if he/she designed & engraved the stamp,
then their name is usually in the center.

I'm glad that you posted the Pelletan stamp, lithograving because it prompted me to see what I had in the database and found I had put in the details for the following stamp so that is one more correction made possible.

This was one of the last stamps before liberation, after which Gandon was in disgrace, a situation only relieved by his Marianne stamp being picked by De Gaulle who did not know who had produced it.

Even after that, (although he may have engraved it earlier) he when he engraved the Sarah Bernhardt stamp, he was unable to sign it and his friend Mazelin added his name instead. Perhaps when the Pelletan stamp was being prepared, there was already an awareness that Gandon was out of favour with the authorities and he may have been working anonymously.

Gibbons has no knowledge of Gandon engraving this stamp, of course, but there is a listing somewhere of his complete works which if I remember, may be in the posession of his son.

It is intriguing, isn't it.

As for Decaris (one of my favourites), his stamps are usually instantly recognisable, particularly portraits. One of his had me thrown until I read that it was his and that is this, which he signed using just the first, middle and last letters of his surname. It made me wonder whether that may have been a nickname of some sort. So far, this is the only stamp I have found that he signed like this. As you say, those French engravers can make life interesting at times.

Thanks jjarmstrong47, yes I realize that Gandon was
in hot water after the liberation for collaborating
with the Vichy government.

But Scott 472 was issued June 10, 1944 and
engraved and printed maybe weeks before.
This was just 4 days after D-Day and the Vichy
government was still in power until the end of August 1944.
Therefore I don't think that was the reason his name
is not on the stamp.

Hello again

I'm looking at the very attractive Canada high values of 1997-2005 engraved by Jorge Peral - a moose, a polar bear, a falcon, a horse, a loon, a bear etc etc. They are really distinctive, I think. But does anyone know of any stamps he may have engraved earlier in his career? He was originally Mexican, worked as an engraver of Mexican banknotes for many years before he moved to Canada in 1995 or so. Are there any stamps from the pre Canada period??

Best to you all from.. Strider

strider - Here is the link: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/...30411_e.html

Just click on the Grizzly Bear stamp, next on the engraver Jorge Peral and finally on the Related stamps icon.

For the Thomas Robert Bugeaud, Marshal of France original stamp design by Albert Decaris serving as a model for the above stamp (as well as many other ones of French provenance) see Giorgio Leccese' impressive collection at http://www.dieproofs.it/archivio/ga...08&g2_page=3 .

Thanks Florian for the steer to the Canada postal archive. Interesting website! There's no sign of any earlier stamps engraved by Peral - only the Canadian high values between 1997 and 2008. It's as though he sprang out in 1997 and then ceased this work in 08. But I suppose being Art Director of the Banknote company keeps him busy.

Peral also engraved the joint issue for Canada and France celebrating the foundation of Quebec. I only have this one,