How Much Trust Does An Online Seller Deserve?

As I had said on joining this forum, I had been away from active collecting for about 25 years. Alot has changed in the intervening period. Two and one-half decades ago I was a frequent auction participant, but almost all of that activity was with brick and mortar firms.

On September 12th, I entered the world of online auctions at BidStart and thought myself lucky to win two PSE-graded lots (one at 90, the other at 95) at fairly reasonable prices. I tried to pay for them using Google Checkout that evening but the link wasn't functioning so I emailed the seller to make him aware of the problem.

He replied the next morning telling me the link issue had been resolved and I subsequently made payment with Google Checkout. Later that day I received a second invoice with a note indicating that I should pay that invoice and cancel the first -- in subsequent contact he assured me that he wouldn't accept the payment on the first invoice and I trusted him, in part because he had no negative feedback.

I was notified by Google Checkout that my lots had shipped on Sept. 14 but, as of the 20th I still hadn't received them. I again contacted the seller telling him that I had neither received the lots nor the credit for the double charge. I was told he'd take care of the credit and mail out the stamps on the 21st -- the delay due to his having to tend to "a sick child."

As of the 27th of September, I still had not received either the lots or the credit so I filed for mediation with Google Checkout. I had every intention of giving him the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to rectify the matter as I still wanted the lots that I had won. That was until I returned to BidStart this evening and saw that I wasn't the only customer who was being strung along--so this evening I also provided negative feedback. Prior to this point I had mistakenly thought this problem was unique to my situation.

I guess my question to the group is this: should I have left negative feedback prior to this point so that others could have been forewarned?

Steve

That's a tough call. I think you did the right thing by giving the seller some time to resolve the situation. Whether the seller is acting in a fraudulent manner, or is simply disorganized and incompetent, at some point you have to communicate that they are not worth doing business with.

As a seller sometimes, I hope to be treated in a nice as manner as I treat the customers (pretty good actually).

Things happen and situations do occur beyond the control of buyer or seller.

What you could do in the future is to actually read the feedback statements (if you hadn't before), also how he responded and acted during any previous questionable situations, which tells you how he would treat you if a situation of some sort came about.

How he words his auction description can be a clue also. There should, in my opinion, be a respectful tone, and a desire evident to help the buyer through the sale and treat him as best can be in order to bring him back and buy again.

Hard to tell sometimes. You have to make the call yourself at what you feel comfortable with, money-wise and time-wise and communications-wise.

Also, a 100% seller may be only 100% this year. Look back a ways too and see what happened before. See if he improved or stayed the same or got worse in his customer relations. Things change over time.

Hopefully the bad sellers get weeded out by lack of sales or bad feedback.

For you to know when to give bad feedback is a judgement call. Try to take all the conditions into account. The length of time an item usually takes to travel, holidays there and where you are, strikes, weather, fires, roving bands of rancid chickens, etc, etc.

Look to see how long he usually takes to deliver. Some sellers ship once a week or at least not every day. Sometimes customs slows things up if international.

Even after all that is considered there still may be things you do not know about. Like sick children. In that case it is up to you how long you wait. Sometimes, depending on the payment method, you can start a claim and then if the item arrives, cancel it and everything is OK. This might make some sellers upset but heck, they are there to follow through on their promises as best they can. Or want to.

I had a surprise operation while selling and my brother stepped in and sent emails to all waiting buyers telling them I would be out soon and most were very understanding, but they could see there that I was attempting to communicate my good intentions and deliver as best I could.

I could go on at length about this as I have been stung at different times and learned the hard way to be extra careful and remember what happened to me and others and pay attention to all the details.

If this guy was OK to star with, a sick child really and for truly changes how he prioritizes things I would think. Or if he is faking that (that would be pretty bad indeed) I hope he gets what is coming to him. No need of such behavior.

Partial rant over .
edit typos

Puzzler,

As a father of two, I was willing to accept a sick child delay, but another week has passed since the day he promised to mail the stamps and he lives less than 300 miles from me.

And he has also gone silent in responding to my subsequent questions regarding the status of my order.

And he wasn't too preoccupied to be a bidder against me in the 24 September Posner auction on BidStart so I'm starting to conclude that he isn't a man of honor.

And I got the lots I won in the Posner auction yesterday so I don't think it unreasonable to think that lots won on September 12th should have been shipped by now -- especially since it was he who notified Google Checkout that the order had shipped on the 14th!

But maybe I'm too close to this to view it objectively...

Steve

tomiseksj,

Nope, not too close. I was just covering all the bases for your possibilities and others also who may read this.

It sounds like to me you have been very patient and understanding, beyond the call of what is reasonable.

I have brought the seller to the attention of bidStart administration. They have always been very quick to act. However, I do not expect them to do anything initially other than to make an inquiry, because it has not been 30 days since the first "problem sale". I am also awaiting a shipment from this seller.

I want to bring up a couple of points that not everyone knows.

1. The seller had been ill for about 1 year, and has recently returned to selling on bidStart. That is why the earlier feedback are rather out-dated.

2. The seller requires payment be made in 3 days and is very quick about sending invoices. Most everybody here knows that I'm rather slow in getting shipments out myself because of my constantly changing travel schedule. However, I also give everybody plenty of time to pay. When a seller shrinks down payment time to 3 days, as far as I'm concerned, that also shrinks down the time I will permit the seller to get the item to me. I hope others will better understand Steve's perspective on this transaction. If the seller insists on payment within 3 days, I do not think it is unreasonable to expect the shipment in under 14 days (especially since the seller claims to send out shipments twice a week.

3. Steve is not the only one reporting trouble with this seller.

I expect to get my purchase later this week. I will update later on whether or not I receive it.

The bidStart owner has sent me reply to let me know they will definitely look into this matter.

Wow, it's after midnight there, and he's sending back personal replies! Talk about excellent response/service at bidStart!

k

That's more than can be said for ebay.
I must have written well over 100 messages/complaints [especially about Feedback] and have NEVER, NOT ONCE received a personal reply. Only automated messages.
I gave up long ago.


Londonbus1

If the guy lived 300 miles from me, and I paid more then 100.00 I would be driving to his house to get them in person.

I am sorry guys, but I have known sellers of computer stuff as well as stamps, who have used the "sick relative/ dead relative" as an excuse to prolong a ripoff. This is a business, how long does it take to put a stamp in an envelope and send it?
I have no sympathy for excuses. Business is Business. When you are in the marketplace you need to act and be a professional.

just my .02

This was sent to me at 12:09 am today:




And this morning I also got this from from the seller by way of the Google Checkout mediation process:




Notice there was no mention to the Google Checkout Support Team of his telling me that he would "mail the items on Wednesday" or for that matter, when he anticipated being able to do so. I imagine if he is able to respond to Google Checkout he is also able, if so inclined, to issue a credit for an erroneous charge. And had I agreed to wait, why would I have sought mediation? Further, I wonder why he indicated via Google Checkout that the items had shipped on September 14th, but that is an issue for them to address with him.

And for clarity, this was all that he told me by email on last Tuesday about the reason for delay:



Upon reflection, I see he didn't commit to which specific "Wednesday" that the lots would be mailed.

Sadly, with each passing moment it appears more unlikely that I'll ever see those two lots that I had been so excited to have won.

have you countered to google checkout, saying that you didn't agree to wait?

Here is my counter:

let's hope he doesn't pull all the money from his google account and close it down.
Since he has been suspended from bidstarts.

btw.. you really should post his information so people will know to avoid him.

One lesson I learned in my prior life was that once you sent rounds downrange, you couldn't take them back.

The issue is still ongoing and there may actually be extenuating circumstances, worsened by extremely bad business sense and poor communication skills.

Before a public execution, I believe he is due his day in court -- redemption is still possible (albeit unlikely).

I think the prompt action taken by bidStart to suspend him has adequately ensured that people will avoid him.

May I respond to this topic in a different slant?

Feedback has been mentioned here and I have a bit of a beef with 'some' sellers, not all.

My feelings on feedback is that it should be done in the following manner - - this is of course in my humble opion <G>.

Let's assume you have already won a particular bid - - The transaction should take place in the following manner:

1 = I win and I pay right away
2 = The seller should give me my positive feedback right away and send my items in a fair a decent time frame (overseas of course can take longer)
3 = Once I receive the said lot(s), then I give the seller the same positive feedback.

What has been happening, with me personally anyway, is that I pay right away and after I receive the items in question, there is a small note on the invoice saying something to the effect: "If you are pleased with our service we would appreciate a positive feedback and we shall then give you a positive feedback in return" - or something close to those words. This to me anyway, is like holding my positive feedback as ransom until I give the seller one. It should be right after I pay for any given lot(s) I have won and up to me to decide if the service was honestly fast enough and as described.

I hope that I am not offending anyone in here but I don't like to wait for my feedback after I have paid and received the items in question.

Interested in seeing others opinons in here.

Chimo

Bujutsu

i agree with you 100%