The first one looks like a #65 and the second may be a #94,what you need to do is measure the grill on the stamp,if it's 9 X 13mm you have an "F" grill which is a #94.
The no grill stamp is most likely #65, you must verify the grill on the other stamp, odds are that it is E or F grill. E grill will be #88 or #88a depending on color and F grill will be #94 or #94a also depending on color. E grill will be 11 x 13 mm and F grill will be 9 x 13 mm, good luck and may the force be with you.
Grill sizes are approximate, the "F" grill stamp is the most common of the 1861 series. Grills may be weak and appear to be smaller the number of points should be 11-12 x 15-17.
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Posted 10/08/2010 7:59 pm
