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Watermarks,, Triangles, Type I, Ii, III Etc..

 
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4106 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   08:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stampvirgin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I recently won a couple of pages from a album.
you can see it here. http://stampwants-stamps.bidstart.c...29369/a.html

As I go through it quickly this morning, I realized that just going by description alone isn't good enough, I really have to check for watermarks and placement of watermarks on every stamp...
I bought this, cheaply, to fill in a bunch of holes in my album for this time period.. But there sure is a lot of work cut out for me.
I was reading a new(old) book about detecting fraudulent stamps, that I got in the mail yesterday, and it basically recommends watermark fluid and a uv lamp will detect almost all types of alterations. I am quite impressed. So each stamp in this sheet will get measured, watermarked, etc.. not because of any particular value but for two reasons. I want to make sure they are identified correctly and I need the education and practice. Some of these stamps in the 1900 series can be quite daunting to identify, is the perforation size correct? does it have a watermark? if so, what type/ is it vertical, horizontal, backwards in any direction? there certainly is a lot to do.
I have a question regarding lighter fluid as a watermark detector, does it damage the stamp in the long run? do I need to "wash" if after-wards? It is cheaper then watermark fluid, but perhaps not as good?
Any and all comments are appreciated.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
5894 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   09:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add smauggie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ronsonol (the lighter fluid) contains Benzene, a rather toxic substance (also the primary toxic substance in gasoline). It is a well-known carcinogen and can cause leukemia. Prolonged exposure to the fumes is deadly. If you are going to use it, make sure you are in a well-ventilated area. If you ever have children in your home I would discourage you from using it.

I have seen it used, and much like watermark fluid it evaporates very quickly leaving no mark or residue behind. No damage is done to the stamp (including no damage to gum).
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Valued Member
United States
116 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   09:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add eopie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have always used lighter fluid to check watermarks and I have never had any problems. I just make sure that I have a couple of windows open so it can clear the air some. You do not have to wash the stamp after it. The fluid will evaporate from the stamp.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
527 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   09:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add fredcdobbs to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I use lighter fluid, but then I tend to be somewhat of a daredevil. Just yesterday I sprayed some Krylon without wearing a NIOSH respirator I even played with mercury from the school chemistry class, back before it became a bad thing.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1566 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   2:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lighter fluid is both great for this type of work and cheap. I have been using it for over 30 years now. The tip about the fumes is worth considering for if you have asthma or working around a possible ignition source. I don't take enough of it in for really worrying about any other side effects, of course if you sniffing it every day for long periods of time that may be a different story.

Lighter fluid will help bring out some other hidden things on stamps like repaired thins etc.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
977 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   5:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ratio411 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Will lighter fluid show me anything about a stamp on cover?
I was going through my turn of the century cover today trying
to identify each stamp and labeling the page. I focused on
the 2 and 3 cent stamps from the era (1885-1920). These are
the stamps that always give me a headache trying to ID.

I have the Type 1, 2, 3, 4... thing down pretty good, but
some can only be narrowed down with water marks, and I am
not going to take these off cover.

Also, I looked at one stamp that had 3 varieties...
Regular
Capped 2 on left
Capped 2 on both
And there was a note that a capped 2 on right only has
never been found to exist. Well, I have one with a 'cap'
on the right, but not left. ???? Where am I going wrong there?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4106 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have a 332 that has a left hand side straight edge.. plenty of margin so it is not a clipped perf.. is it part of the 332a plate block or just part of the 332 sheet? I don't think there is any way to tell.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4106 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   5:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
so for a small amount of money I was able to fill a bunch of holes in my pages..
I was missing all but 6 of the stamps on the above pages.. I had those 6 as mint (somehow)
No I just need to fill the rest of the holes.
225,227,228 and some others the rest of the 1908-09 imperfs. 308,310,311,312,313,314,315 sigh.. those last few are pricey..
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4106 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   5:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
and I got myself a used 112 and 113 in VF condition used.. cheap.. like under 10.00 cheap..
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
977 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   5:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ratio411 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am not sure, but I think 332a is designated for a pane of 6
specifically. Once a single is taken from either a pane or a
sheet, it is automatically a 332. I could be wrong, but that is
how I read it. ??? Once it is a single, unless it has plate ID
to it, you will probably never be able to tell if it was of a
pane or sheet in orgin. Again, noob here, taking guesses to
feel like part of the discussion!


Edit:
To clarify, my 2007 Scott says specifically "booklet" pane.
So apparently surviving intact booklet panes of 332 are
scarce enough to warrant special attention, therefore an "a".
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Edited by ratio411 - 10/19/2010 5:45 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
4106 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   5:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
you are probably right. I inventoried it as a 332
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
977 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   5:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ratio411 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Did you get many "Type 2"s?
The 2 cent Washington T-2s are few and far between in my
inventory. I have loads of T-1s and T-3(4)s among mine.
I dunno, I strain so hard to see the triangles that maybe
I am overlooking some T-2s? That is the one with the smallest
area to look for the lightest lines. ???
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1566 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   6:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would think that if you used it on a cover you would not longer have a stamp on a cover.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2547 Posts
Posted 10/19/2010   7:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Checking watermarks on covers is very difficult. You can do some sorting by cancelation date. Listed below are the first date on press with watermarked paper:
1c- Apr. 29, 1895
2c- May 2, 1895
3c- Oct. 31, 1895
4c- June 5, 1895
5c- June 11, 1895
6c- Aug. 31, 1895
8c- July 22, 1895
10c- July 7, 1895
15c- Sep. 10, 1895
50c- Nov. 9, 1895
$1- Aug. 12, 1895
$2- Aug. 13, 1895
$5- Aug 16, 1895
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
644 Posts
Posted 10/20/2010   12:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billw2 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Check this out for triangles on 2c first bureaus...

http://www.jamesdire.net/babybn.html
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
5894 Posts
Posted 10/25/2010   1:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add smauggie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Got me some SuperSafe. It was pricey, but the stuff works like a charm and dries off extremely quickly. It also proved that the stamp I had was worth $1.10 and not $130. *sigh*
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