Stanford, MT (Precancel?)

Can anyone ID this?

Frankie

I'm surprised no one has yet commented on your stamp.

While I can't help much with your question, I do agree that there is little other choice than to assume this is Stanford, Montana. The real question is whether this is a legitimate precancel or some local cancel that may not necessarily be a precancel.

I agree it looks like a precancel, but in looking at all double line types, it's hard to pinpoint what type it could be due to the seemingly wide distance between the double lines.

Since the Type 812 is the only precancel recognized for that town (which in no way matches this example) you may very well have uncovered a new find. Not sure how one would go about documenting it, though, especially since most precancels are of such low monetary value that it doesn't usually pay to have them expertized.

An interesting side note is that Stanford, Montana is very small town with a population of only 454 people (2000 census), which makes me wonder who would have used a precancel like that. I imagine the example you have posted would have been printed in very small quantities.

That cancel and others like it [see scan] are not precancels. They are a form of roller cancel that has a technical name, but I forget what it is. They come from many towns. If you look at my Franklin KY, you can see that the cancels are not spaced properly to fit one per stamp. If they happen to fall right on the stamp, like Willmar MN, they look like precancels.

Concerning authentification of precancels, the standard services - PF, PSE, APEX - are not where you want to go. Most Precancel Society members know enough to give a quick analysis. If you have a new find - they can assist in getting it catalog-listed. This can be done inexpensively - basically for free - and the monetary reward is not insignificant. New precancel type finds can usually bring about 1000 USD, and a new town more than that [this applies to old stamps, not precancel devices found in the back room of your local post office]. Happy Hunting!

What I don't understand is, if the four above examples (I'm sure there are more) all have the same style and font, they why aren't they considered a new type. And how do we know for sure that these are not pre-cancels?

Frankie

Frankie - thats a great question. It is somewhat esoteric, especially looking back at USPO practices of 80-90 years ago. In theory, precancel devices were supposed to be used only for precancelling - and the stamps sold to (trusted) permit holders. The canceller pictured in this post was in a different shape/technology from a normal precancelling device. Back when these issues were hotly debated and sorted out - collector/experts went to the PO's and looked at the devices and looked at the authorization documentation. To present day eyes, it might seem arbitrary/unfair but there is a lot of logic, history, and research behind it. Typically, precancelling devices were ordered from Washington DC home office and depending on when, and who had the manufacturing contract - they look like the standard PSS styles in the currect catalog. Sometimes, local offices got permission to craft devices locally - and the documentation exists (at least at some time in the past). If a style is not a DC furnished issue and no documentation could be found by collectors, getting it into the catalog was an uphill battle. Cancellers in the style shown in this post were well known to be NOT precancel devices during the time they were current.

Here is another example right off tonight's ebay - the Galveston's are that same roller (non-pre)cancel. A good tipoff again is that the spacing of the city names is such that 2 consecutive stamps cannot have the city centered correctly.

Interesting reading. Based on what was explained here, how would you view this? Is it a precancel or not? (The city name doesn't quite fit the stamp ... or at least it seems that way to me.):

Not a precancel. The clue is the town does not really fit on the stamp - and you can imagine the next impressions to the right and left would be significantly misplaced. This is most likely a horizontal box cancel where the vertical sides wound up on the envelope.

Thanks.