It's Old @

Hello All,
We have just been re-reading a batch of old letters we have and were
surprised to find that as far back as 1897
the @ was being used as in the attatched text of one of the letters.
Nothing new is there?..


Quote

761 Sapper B Stott
30 Coy R Engineers
Elphinstone Barracks
Plymouth

October 18th 1897

Dear Alf, Mater, Tom etc.,

I am very sorry to let you see in the letter I have wrote to Leslie which I wrote Sunday and too lazy to make up the parcel again after making it up, so I will let you see what I feel like at times when I am disappointed @ not receiving your letter. Well, it can't be helped now,hoping at least you will not be cross with me for letting you see my little temper.
I am also very glad to hear from you, but after reading it I was
very glad you have run across Tommy Waller for it will be a nice time for you to spend with a teapot and then I will relieve him. Glancing down a little further I came across another welcome piece of news and I can answer that gladly, with a loud YES. I have got my second class certificate also a rate of pay 2d a day extra which will come in handy for Xmas. Of course, that is only for 6 days a wk.
Another thing is I am sorry to hear it is all orph with the Major but I am the same as you it is all orph with the fisherman's daughter, so it is tit for tat.

While I think of it I can tell you that I shall try and go in for a course of Brennnans Torpedoes. Of course that is all secrecy you know. It will mean a course of 6 months or more at Chatham and Sheerness, which you may be sure I will try for. Then will we be able to see each other oftener, I have been on the Tack ever since I wrote you first, and it has done me no good for I am not a penny better for it yet, hope to be though between this and Xmas. I am getting on first class, the only thing that I have to look to is to pass out swimming. You know it is too cold now to go in the water, but it will not effect me till about next March, then I shall
be losing. You might look at Sunday's People and there you will see
something of J. Dunn if you can remember him at Tottenham, the rascal.
I must now conclude with fondest love to all at home and give my best respects to Tom and tell him I should like to have a note from him and tell him I will excuse everything but he must write to me or else me and him will fight when I next see him. I must really give up my long talk as I have already got off by heart now with the Majors.

Wishing you every success, I still remain your loving brother and son Bert

P.S. Nice heavy seas lately outside the breakwater it has made a few of the chaps sick, but it has never made me sick. Fancy seeing a sea come right over the bow of the boat, all over the deck and in the cabin. Bert.

Unquote.
We thought some of the list members might enjoy the style of writing.
Regards.
Ron and Eunice.

Well here's one fellow that enjoyed it Ron,
I just loved reading that letter, times change superficially
but people seem to remain the same inside basically.
I bet the ancient Egyptians were hardly different in their wishes
and aspirations.

The @ is curious, we need Wt1 to chase that one up on the internet.

Please note:

The fellow mentions a "Brennans Torpedo" ...another Aussie invention

History of @


What do you call the @ symbol used in e-mail addresses?


That little "a" with a circle curling around it that is found in email addresses is most commonly referred to as the "at" symbol. Surprisingly though, there is no official, universal name for this sign. There are dozens of strange terms to describe the @ symbol. Several languages use words that associate the shape of the symbol with some type of animal.

For instance, some quirky names for the @ symbol include:

apenstaartje - Dutch for "monkey's tail"
snabel - Danish for "elephant's trunk"
kissanhnta - Finnish for "cat's tail"
klammeraffe - German for "hanging monkey"
papaki - Greek for "little duck"
kukac - Hungarian for "worm"
dalphaengi - Korean for "snail"
grisehale - Norwegian for "pig's tail"
sobachka - Russian for "little dog"

More on the symbology

Before it became the standard symbol for electronic mail, the @ symbol was used to represent the cost or weight of something. For instance, if you purchased 6 apples, you might write it as 6 apples @ $1.10 each.

With the introduction of e-mail came the popularity of the @ symbol. The @ symbol or the "at sign" separates a person's online user name from his mail server address. For instance, joe@uselessknowledge.com. Its widespread use on the Internet made it necessary to put this symbol on keyboards in other countries that have never seen or used the symbol before. As a result, there is really no official name for this symbol.

The actual origin of the @ symbol remains an enigma.

@ History tells us that the @ symbol stemmed from the tired hands of the medieval monks. During the Middle Ages before the invention of printing presses, every letter of a word had to be painstakingly transcribed by hand for each copy of a published book. The monks that performed these long, tedious copying duties looked for ways to reduce the number of individual strokes per word for common words. Although the word "at" is quite short to begin with, it was a common enough word in texts and documents that medieval monks thought it would be quicker and easier to shorten the word "at" even more. As a result, the monks looped the "t" around the "a" and created it into a circle-eliminating two strokes of the pen.

Another story tells the @ symbol was used as an abbreviation for the word amphora. Amphora was the unit of measurement that determined the amount held by the large terra cotta jars that were used to ship grain, spices and wine. Giorgio Stabile, an Italian scholar, discovered the @ symbol in a letter written in 1536 by a Florentine trader named Francesco Lapi. It seems likely that some industrious trader saw the @ symbol in a book transcribed by monks using the symbol and appropriated it for use as the amphora abbreviation. This would also explain why it became common to use the symbol in relation to quantities of something.

Here's the Wiki definition (definitions) of the @ symbol. Interestingly, they note that the symbol was added to typewriters in the 1880's which would help to explain the widely accepted use in the quote recited previously in this thread.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_sign

It also makes sense to think that in Biblical times the need to preserve space and ink would have prompted the use of that symbol.

One could probably justify similar use of "%" to represent "c/o" or "in care of" as used within addresses for many years.

"we" (folks I talk to and in my town) refer to it as an ampersand or, like you stated, the "at sign" and I also believe amphora's far pre-date monks (at least Christian/Catholicism in general)correct?

Ampersand = "&", which does not relate to the "@" sign.

great letter Penguins, love it. Got any more?? - jeff

Yes, thank you!

So it begs the question 'Why does # = a pound?'
The tic-tac-toe sign!

Hello All,

Thanks for all the feedback on that old letter.

Rod - We had not realised that "Brennans Torpedo" ... was another Aussie invention! That was one of the things we have listed to check on the Internet.

Yes, times do change, but unfortunately people are seeming to do so as well at the moment. We will not dwell on that though<grin>

Thanks too for the History of @ - Eunice is going to take this story to the U3A history group and explain how we put the letter up on the Stamp Community forum and the replies we have had, so quickly after it was posted. They will be very interested in the different aspects of the symbol.
Really like the quirky names too.
............
Wt1 - Aha, we were wondering about you as Rod mentioned that we needed you to chase it up on the Internet , which you did.
Thanks for that.

Jeff and Smauggie - yes, we have about forty of them. Will pick out another and hope it is of interest.

Here is one where a good 'ticking off' is being given.
Letter 6 No address and no signature

Quote:-

October 30th 97

Dear Leslie

I think it very wrong of you to write to me knowing that you are still a bad boy and have not attended school regularly lately. How is that?
Do you understand what harm you are doing Mater also yourself by not
following the laws of the country, yes laws of the country. My boy you will think of this when you get to work and have to work for a living, then you will see your folly. Now I thought you was going on lately all right but no, you will be trod on presently and you will want to know the reason why everyone despises you.
Look at me, I attend school and go hard at work for an hr and half and I have a certificate which I will be proud to show when I leave here. What is your idea at not attending school eh - what good
will it do you when you start work you will no nothing then that as where you will be minus school.
Take a brother's advice and put in as much time as you can at school before it is too late. If I had been and neglected my school days I would never have had my 2nd. Ain't I glad rather I would give £50 to be in your place for one year or so. Now if I hear of you attending
school I shall be pleased and when I come home I will make it worth my while and all when and what time you will have to go to school. Now do not forget and do this to please your brother. Also I know it will please Mater for your life will never be so happy after Mater's death. Mater will live longer if only you obey her and do everything to please her and you will also please me.



Unquote

So that told his younger brother where to get off. he did not finish it off with any loving greetings or anything!
The last letter is from the younger brother Leslie who was writing from Connecticut USA, so obviously he put a big distance between himself and his bossy brother!


If list members are interested in these we will post a few more maybe weekly or something - what do people think?

Regards.

Ron and Eunice.

Hi Ron,
I do like the letters, but more,
I really like to see Eunice interpret stampless covers
and all those (to the neophyte) strange cover markings.

If letters are posted, please (if you can) attach a small image
of the cover, that adds some spice!

I_Love_Stamps, being in Pennsylvania and I, being in Nova Scotia, descended from some of the United Empire Loyalist chaps from New England area, both agree on the 'local' usage of the word ampersand being used to describe the 'at' '@' sign.

I have a tendency to call the '@' an 'ampersand' and have a moments hesitation while my brain catches up and translates it to 'at'. A good example of how languages change over the years in local use I think.

Probably not universal but interesting none the less.

Fascinating letters Penguins, thanks for sharing!

It's quite amazing when you start looking this material up on the internet as to how various parts of the country and/or world look upon these symbols with different meanings.

We've already talked about the "@" and "&", so now for a history lesson on the evolution of the "#" sign (number, pound, hash (or whatever)) here it goes...and it seems the symbol is regionalized depending upon where in the world one gives it usage:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign