What Would You Do?

The story
I have been working on this cover more off than on for several months. At first I thought is was #66 (66TC) "lake red" because the color is almost dead nut on. If removed from the cover the value would be????? In as much, there is no Scott value given for a used example and there is not a hand full of then identified and certified.

Next, there are only two issues in the A25 series that are lake red, the #66 and the #104, neither is grilled and the paper is not white enough for the #104.

Now here is where this tail takes a really serious twist. Today, before soaking it, I took one last look at it with a side lit 365nm UV. I now think I can see a very faint points up grill. I will say that I have tried counting the point so many times I am seeing grill points everywhere I look.





Now to make the hair stand up on your arms…………..There only three A-25's points up grills, the "A", "B", and "C". You will never guess how many points I count (22X18). Like I said I am seeing grill point everywhere I look so I could be very wrong. This so so fluky, the color is so wrong for a grilled A25 stamp, but it does look to have a points up grill and it is not an "A".

Options,
1. The stamp is not tied to the cove by a cancellation, remove it and take the chance of screwing up a really expensive cover? YES/NO?
2. Send it to Bill and let him pull his hair out over it? Although he will most likely want to pull it from the cover. YES/NO?

What am I missing here. Please someone give me a sanity check.
Ron

A. - The cover is in poor condition
B. Lift the stamp then hinge it back on
C. Send it in for certification the way it sits, cover and all

1)I would send it "as is"
2)If Bill wants to lift it let him so it can be noted as re-affixed. Then at least you have certification that it originated on that cover.

Thanks guys!
What do you think about the color?
Ron

It has been done before with many expensive covers. send it in and let the expert remove it.

A rose by any other name.... maybe deep rose

PP

Cunundrum wrapped in an inigma?
Although it is very likely the stamp originated on the cover its really not tied per say so either way its a tough call.
From scan it has that almost rose hue but man O man is it a deep deep rose. I think if you had a true Lake beside it you would say not lake , but its almost to red to call any shade of rose.
Have you tried imaging to convert the colors like some do for watermarks to highten the grill? I tried altering colors curves and balances but that grill is SON so its really hard to make out where the sides and bottom are.
Probably made it worse with my 2 cents but if its going for cert anyway send as is.

While not being tied might be a concern it may still be proven. With many older covers after decades of being "on Cover" you end up with a discoloration due to oxidation and chemical reactions. Basically you end up with the outline of the stamp.

First, I noticed that the original color I posted had shifted somewhat, so I re-caned to correct any color variations. This post shows the subject stamp along side the different color options. I think you will agree that it is either red lake or brownish lake and should not have a grill. As I am sure most of you know the grilled A25's look closer to the lighter red browns used for the 65"s.
As it stands at this point, I am leaning towards sending scans to Bill and asking him which would be better, me soak it off or him?
Ron
I will keep you posted.



New scan showing truer color


compair red lake


compair brownish lake


compair to darker 65's


compair to darker rose 64's


A slightly different shade of the brownish lake off paper 66TC

Hey Seal-- I know you're looking at White's on the colors of the A25, but you might also consider a couple of other options, all originating from Michael McClung's research. He wrote a few articles in "The Chronicle" back in the 90's on the A25, about the 54 different color varieties he has identified, all in date ranges, and a scale of rarity for each of them.

The issue of "The Chronicle" with the rarity scale is the May 1995 issue, and it can be purchased from the USPCS website.

His study also is discussed in a color guide published by Richard Morris titled "Three Cents Washington", Color Guide for Scott #64 and 65. It has color tiles for all of the colors identified in Scott's, plus a few others. White's probably has more.

It does identify several shades of lake:

LAKE ROSE, Early 1863, Rarity = 1 (common)
Dull Lake Rose, Early 1863, Rarity = 3
Carmine Lake, Early 1864, Rarity = 8 (pink is 7, pigeon blood is 9, #82 is 10)

McClung's article in Aug '93 talks about lake: "Lake rose come from a large printing and is often found on Union occupation mail from New Orleans, Vickburg, Memphis and Nashville in 1863. Some copies of this shade so closely approach "The Lake" (Scott #66, now relegated to the back of the book) that one would swear they were all printed from the same ink. This similarity has been noted by several authors, but I have not seen any proof that the issued stamps were or were not from the same printing as the 'finished trial color proofs'".

I'm fairly obsessed with this stamp also-- and I know you are. These articles are really interesting. I'm going to Columbus next weekend. I only hope I can find Mr. McClung somewhere (he's from Columbus), and introduce myself and maybe pick his brain for a minute or two.

Hope this was helpful....Ray

When you compare colours shouldn't you have the stamps on the same coloured background? Otherwise white will make the colour seem brighter won't it? On screen it does anyway.

Ron,

If you decide to lift the stamp, let Bill lift it and then certify it. JMO, but if its lifted then he can perhaps also determine if it belongs to the cover. The cover itself is not bad at all. Most covers from that period are discolored torn real bad or have other distractions whereas yours looks pretty good except for the right hand side and it doesn't affect the stamp at all. In addition, I noticed that there are a couple of perfs still retaining the punch out. If bill lifts the stamp he will most likely want to retain those with the stamp in helping to determine if the stamp belongs with the cover. Again, I would suggest sending it to Bill for certification, with the stamp still on cover.

Art

Hey All
I think we can call this mystery solved. To up date everyone. I e-mailed Bill (of course he took half second glance and knew what it was) and not to under whelm his replay. His response was soak it and poke it, it's an 88. I wish I was one hundredth as quick as he is. Attached is the soaked, grill enhanced stamp. I will say that it is a very nice example of a VF #88. Thank you each and every one that responded and I think it was a fun project.
Ron
PS: I will hinge it back to the cover, anybody want or need it? I_Love_Stamp, you collect pen cancels?

I do. What you need for it my friend?

Your mailing address, and double shot of scotch on the rocks (single malt please) if and when we have the chance.

I'm curious about the comment "poke it". What, exactly, does that entail?

I_Love_Stamps!
It is in the mail, winging it's way to you.
Ron