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A Thread About Reperfing And How To Tell.

 
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Rest in Peace
United States
7097 Posts
Posted 10/22/2011   08:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
OK, I have been researching this subject a little recently and I have found what I think is a pretty informative site on the subject. Please contribute to this thread as I believe it could be a valuable resource. ~Jay

http://www.hgitner.com/whats-new/70
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
4031 Posts
Posted 10/24/2011   03:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A 4d Violet Australia King George V Perfin "OS" Variety BW 111(2)d Left Frame Broken at top.

What is going on with the perforations on this stamp. So far this stamp has had 133 views.

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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
4031 Posts
Posted 10/24/2011   07:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To me the perforations look to have be made by the most bent perforation pins I have ever come across.

It makes me wonder if someone has tried to cover up the damage from blunt perforation pins.

But after hours of looking and thinking about this stamp I do not know if the truth of what has happened to this stamp can be answered.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
4031 Posts
Posted 10/26/2011   02:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamp in question was sold to an very experienced collector for US$45.35c having 144 views.
With the way Australian stamps on-line are looked at here not too many forgeries get to being sold without an email to correct the sellers position and that is for sure and I highly welcomed.

I believe this thread is a very important one and I am very surprised that it is drifting into the too hard basket.

Maybe I am missing something and need to be told.

Always Happy Stamping. KGV.
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
1361 Posts
Posted 10/26/2011   06:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add AnthonyUK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have a question not specifically regarding re-perf but please bear with me.
I'm investigating this (possible) Italy #1
As you can see the perfs look a bit ropey but looking at other examples is not unusual.
My question is has this been fake perfed from an imperf Sardinia?
What leads you to your conclusion one way or the other.
Bear in mind the price difference is nearly £5000 [:o]



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Valued Member
Australia
426 Posts
Posted 10/26/2011   07:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add peterethio to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If you look at the perfs on the left and right side of the stamp, they look too different to have been done at the same time by the same machine. The ones on the right are almost perfect with no short perfs. On the left the perfs are the opposite; most of them are short. Looks suspect from this angle.
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Rest in Peace
United States
7097 Posts
Posted 10/26/2011   07:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Also look at the top perforations of the top stamp. they look lower on the left side than the right. I don't much of anything about any world wide stamps but if I had to guess it's probably reperfed at least on the top and right side. JMO
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Rest in Peace
Canada
6750 Posts
Posted 10/26/2011   08:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John,

The little I know, learned from reading on Stamp Community about reperfing, and having seen khj manipulate some images, is shown below in my modified version of your scan.

Shown is the bottom of your stamp with red lines added across the stamp, and then a snippet of a scan from the top perfs of your stamp.



In order to add this snippet you have to scan your original picture and leave lots of black space around the stamp. Then in Paint or another program paste in the top perfs onto the pic of the bottom perfs and line the perfs up, or try to.

Immediately you can see if there are any irregularities in perfing between the top / bottom (or sides if you compare the sides).

Quite similar to your excellent way of checking perfs by holding up a similar stamp of known perfs to the edge of the one in question.

In this case, as the perfs do line up, this helps to prove that no reperfing has happened, as reperfing sometimes (or most times) is done a bit off from where it should be if not done with extreme care). Pay attention also to where the frame lines or edges of the design are and if they line up also (not sown of my example).

The red lines are drawn on your 4d stamp to help with what I think may have been the questionable appearance of the bottom perfs to an untrained eye. They seem to travel up and down in their journey across the stamp, the problem being that some perfs are longer than others, thus giving an illusion of irregularity.

Not having a scan of the back or a close up of any possible perf holes and extra bits of paper left in the holes a person is left to compare what his head is telling him as to what seems straight and true and right, in a leveling sense of the words.

This is not helped by the stamp being tilted a bit to one side in your original scan. Again, a difference that gives an illusion to an untrained eye. You, having dealt with these stamps for years have perhaps, unconsciously , been trained by experience to adjust your perceptions to account for any tilting or perf lengths or hole irregularities, and thus are not fighting against your brain telling you that something is wrong with this picture (when there isn't).

Another way to use the red lines (just produced by Paint program) is to draw lines across the whole stamp from perfs to perfs and see if everything aligns this way also.

Sorry that turned into a general lecture for everyone also I think. Any tweakings to my statements or corrections most welcome.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2953 Posts
Posted 10/26/2011   12:29 pm  Show Profile Check Rileysan's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Rileysan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
AnthonyUK,

The short, beat-up perfs on the left and bottom of yoru stamp look genuine. I agree with ILS' assessment that the top and right side have been reperfed. The right side is so perfect, and so different from the other 3 sides that it immediately draws a red flag. The top is a little harder to tell until you get towards the right side, where the perfs cut into the design.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
4031 Posts
Posted 10/27/2011   12:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Really great info Puzzler. Thanks that is something I can understand and do.

If I have not taught myself, my learning about stamps is from SCF members.
It takes away that lonely feeling of no stamp club or stamp meeting or a friend down the road.

Thanks to all who answered my call for help and for others. KGV


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Rest in Peace
Canada
6750 Posts
Posted 10/27/2011   02:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You are welcome. I am just an amateur though.

This topic is mentioned off and on on Stamp Community over the months and years with much more knowledgeable people saying and showing.

KHJ showed some similar scans once but I couldn't find them or got tired.

A free online program that allows one to rotate pictures by fractions is Google's Picasa 3, now with name tags.
http://picasa.google.com/
Remember to check or uncheck the box that asks if you want to put all the pictures on your computer on Google or not!
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
898 Posts
Posted 10/27/2011   03:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add finches to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
KGV Collector, the 4d Violet KGV sure has odd characteristics. The OS Perfin holes are the most damaged I've ever seen.

My thoughts about the outer stamp perfs - first time I've seen such a variety of wide/narrow/large/small on a KGV stamp.

Puzzler - good info, maybe more discussion needed to establish no perf touch-up's took place in the past, imo.

The more I look the more convinced the perfs have been opened up, tampered with.

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Edited by finches - 10/27/2011 04:41 am
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
4031 Posts
Posted 10/27/2011   05:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
KGV Collector, the 4d Violet KGV sure has odd characteristics. The OS Perfin holes are the most damaged I've ever seen.

My thoughts about the outer stamp perfs - first time I've seen such a variety of wide/narrow/large/small on a KGV stamp


Thanks heaps finches! You have put words to my suspicions. It all seems to come clear to me now.
All money for this stamp has been refunded already I am so convinced this stamp has been tampered with somewhere in the past. It has come to me in a bulk lot which was confusing me. Even if I am wrong it is a small price to pay for one's credibility in stamping. KGV

Edit Post 1313 for me and I really like the number 13. lol lol
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Edited by KGV Collector - 10/27/2011 05:39 am
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