Three Interesting GB Covers From 1830-S-40-S

I thought you might like to see some interesting covers with a common connection. All three covers are addressed to the same person between 1838 and 1844.

The first cover is a pre stamp wrapper with handstamp '2' TP (to pay) Fetter lane. It has a London backstamp 'No 13 1838' 52 years in 1890 It was used as a 'philatelic item' and a 1d lilac was added which received a commemorative hand stamp for the Penny Post jubilee exhibition on the first day, 2 July 1890.



The next cover is a simple just 4 margin 1d black from plate 4 on a cover addressed to the same W B Scott. This cover has a nice early received backstamp of 18 November 1840. It was posted in (I think) Dover. Unfortunately the stamp is not complete and it shows the date as (Nov 1...)so it could be anywhere in the 'teens. Anyone know how long post would take from Dover to London in 1840?



And finally, A very nice wrapper sent from Oxford Street cancelled by a neat black Maltese Cross. It was backstamped on arrival 16 March 1844. Again the 1d lilac was affixed on the occasion of the Penny Jubilee 46 years later and cancelled by the Guildhall hand stamp 19 may 1890.



There, I have posted a few items from our collection. I hope you enjoy looking at them (assuming the images load - fingers crossed!)

Ralph.

Fascinating group of 3 covers, especially the "creations" which I have never seen before.

I wonder if you could tell me how common a strip of 4 imperf 1d reds on cover postmarked 1844 would be?.... a friend gave me it to me and it is well outside my normal area of competence

Please keep on posting such interesting material.

Best wishes,

Brian....machins.

Hi Brian,

I am pleased you liked the covers...

In 1844 the Uniform Penny Post was in force and as far as I can see there was not a 4d tariff but I am no expert on postal rates and I am sure somebody will jump in and tell us... A strip of four 1d reds on a cover is a desirable item and not that common. A lot depends on what the stamps are, how they are cut from the sheet and the quality of cancellations. If you can post a scan of the cover I may be able to identify the stamps which will be a start.

Registered post was introduced in 1841 at the cost of 1s (12d) but although it was reduced to 4d eventually that was not until 1862/3.

I have spent the past few weeks studying Machins. I am at the totally confused stage at the moment but that is all parts of the fun. 40 years of ignoring the progress of the machin is now coming home to roost. I will be posting lots of questions, once I can order my thoughts into such a manner that a question can be asked...

... I am just not used to dealing with all this 'new' paper

Ralph

Hopefully the 2 scans attached below will be clear enough....if not let me know and I will try again.

Do you think the cover make a single lot in a small provincial UK auction?

Any and all info gratefully received.









I always think that machins along with a few other areas of collecting complexity should have a sign somewhere stating "Abandon hope all ye who enter here"

Best wishes,

Brian....machins.

Brian
Don't know about other areas of the country, I can only speak for around here (Flintshire, North Wales) when I say your cover certainly would stand on it's own as a lot in a local auction. I attend auctions in Wrexham and Chester and even ordinary stamps are making decent prices these days, in some cases far more than they appear to be worth.
The only drawback to local auction is the high commission charged, generally 21% round here.
DavidR

Hi Brian,

It is interesting to have a strip of four on a wrapper like that. unfortunately, they are all cut through making them worthless to the serious collector. The 1841 penny red stars catalogue from £25 and plated examples up to £300. so it is a real shame they are all damaged. However, it may sell at a local auction but it will not make much money. You may find ebay is a better bet. Just make sure you list it as trimmed so you don't get any hassle after the sale.

Interesting wrapper though. I think it cost 4d to send because it would have had multiple sheets of paper attracting additional postage cost due to weight - but somebody else may well know better. As I said before I am not a rates expert.

Thanks for posting,
Ralph.

Ralph, I'm not seeing W.B. Scott...I'm seeing B. Scott.

Benjamin Scott was the Chamberlain of London in the mid-19th century. Google books has at least one work by him, regarding municipal London, and he is mentioned in many others, including The most complete and authentic history of the life and public services of General U.S. Grant, which relates the story of General Ulysses S. Grant's world tour, and includes a quote of the proclamation read by Mr. Scott when Grant visited London.

This might be your man:
http://www.elmbridgemuseum.org.uk/e...y.asp?id=115

It would make sense that he would receive a good amount of mail. And he started work as a clerk in the Chamberlain's office in 1827.

See what you think...

at 40mph about 2hrs 23 minutes
(73 miles)

In 1840 there may have been a rail service,
there certainly was in 1846

That is interesting and I an inclined to agree with you. The first of those items to come into our collection was the Penny Black cover. My initial thought were it was, as you say, Mr B Scott. I was then told that it was in fact W B Scott, an artist of the time. When Sue discovered the other covers recently, we were fixed on the idea that it was WB Scott. Now looking at them with an open eye I agree with you. Certainly the dates match.

Thank you for your link to the Elmbridge Hundred article and the link to you S Grant. I am now off to see what else I can dig up...

Anybody else got any covers addressed to Mr B Scott at The chamberlain's office?

Ralph.

Brian (machins) have you looked at the Deegam handbook on machins? It is available as a CD and once you have bought it, you can access and download periodic updates and additions to it. I got a copy about two years ago. I think it was 39.95 pounds.

Mr. Deegam arranges the machins in a very logical manner and goes into a lot of detail.

That is interesting the line was opened to Dover in 1844 and rail carried mail was the new way. As you elude to the last of the London horse drawn mail coaches was run in the Spring of 1846. Interesting times...

Ralph.

Until now Sue and I have collected pre decimal GB. recently we have been delving into the VAST subject that is the Decimal Machins. I have not been a lover of digital media, preferring the weight and substance of a 'real' book. The Complete Deegam® Machin Handbook, by Douglas G.A.Myall, was widely accepted as being THE ultimate work I decided to seek out a copy. On discovering that the Deegam title was now only available as a CD my heart sunk. How wrong could I be? This subject is so complex that now I have bitten the bullet and parted with my £39.95 I can concur with all those others out there that this is the way to go. The information is easy to access and read. All the information is supplied as linked .pdf files which means it is easy to print out bits if you want to. I have it loaded onto a small-screen laptop and I can use it just how I would use a conventional book, on my desk with a pile of stamps and other philatelic paraphernalia. I have not found a need to print any pages off - yet!

The free updates keep it current so it does not go out of date. If you buy a copy it is burn-to-disc on order so it is as up to date as it can be.

I have found it very interesting and an invaluable reference. I was tempted to go with the conventional SG catalogue but after reading countless reviews it is obvious that the only way to keep up with Machin developments is on a day-to-day basis, something a conventional book can't do. If there was ever a reason for embracing new technology, this is it.

Excuse me for going off-topic in my own thread but I just had to express my findings regarding this very useful publication. I think it is the best value for money around at the moment. Just Google Deegam if you want to find out more. Oh BTW I have no connection with Deegam other than being a (recent)happy customer!

Ralph.

I think the first squiggles on all three name lines are the honorific, "Mr."

My 2d, but if someone who knows these things has already identified it, I wouldn't have sufficient knowledge to overrule him or her. I'm just guessing.

I think you are right...

Ralph.

Thanks Ralph for your comments re the strip of four 1d reds.

Seeing I was given it I would have felt ungrateful asking if all of the stamps could be 4 margined and with clear maltese crosses

It will go into those ever expanding boxes entitled "to do".

Best wishes,

Brian....machins.

I seem to remember the Deegam handbook only being available in printed form at what seemed a high price....maybe it is time to revisit the idea of purchasing.

I have been making do with Gibbons catalogues up to now without the level of specialisation available in the Deegam.

Best wishes,

Brian....machins