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Japanese Cover 1895

 
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Valued Member

Sweden
141 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   06:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Tomten to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello there! I've posted a few covers and stamp-questions on here several months ago.. Now I'm back for a while.. I'm starting to sort through all the covers I've got.. This one in particular strikes me as special. Since I basicly know nothing about this, and can't read Japanese, I hope someone here can help me!

I will now post a bunch of pictures.. about 12 I think, of the same cover, since it has (I don't know what) 10 small papers glued(?) to it's front with Japanese letters and CDS(?).
















I'll venture a guess that these small papers are some sort of franking?

I think the letter is to "Gustaf Östergren" (my father's father's mother's father) on the Ship Freiburg with Captain Schültz, German Consulate in Japan, Nagasaki. He was a sailor, so makes sense.

However I'd like to know what all those small papers are for and if it says anything interesting. Also if this might be worth anything for someone outside the family. :)

Thanks in advance. P.S I hope I took the resized images that aren't too big.
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Edited by Tomten - 11/11/2011 07:26 am

Pillar Of The Community
Romania
886 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   06:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Wadmalatz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Amazing! I can`t read Japanese, but to it looks gorgeus. I have older catalogue for Japan, but anyway I guess the stamps (from 1883) have no high CV, although these are in pair. The date of the cancellation also seems interesting, 10. 1. 1895, the chinese-japanese war is still not over, peace treaty to be signed in april.

Quote:
Also if this might be worth anything for someone outside the family. :)

I guess for sure, and I can hardly wait someone deciphers it.
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Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   07:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tomten, the Japanese is very old and very cursive, which makes the handwriting doubly difficult to read. It would also help if you could rotate the images 90 degrees to the right, so that it reads the right way.

Some of the pasted on slips appear to have Japanese names and addresses on them, so I suspect the envelope may have been discarded and reused.

If you could re-post the scans right way up, I'll see what I can do about reading some of them for you.
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Valued Member
Sweden
141 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   07:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tomten to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all input so far! Yes I will rotate them and edit my post.

I had a feeling it was the wrong angle, but since they were that way on the cover I decided to just picture them as they were.
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Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   07:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tomten, I was getting a stiff neck trying to read the slips!
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Valued Member
Sweden
141 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   07:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tomten to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Aw, be wary of your neck, it's quite sensible and you use it a lot ;)

Maybe invest in a monitor able to twist 90degrees? (So I won't have to repost ;) )
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Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   07:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I suppose I could try standing my monitor on its side, but if it falls over ...
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Valued Member
Sweden
141 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   07:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tomten to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You won't have to try that, I've reuploaded them 90degrees to the right! I hope I twisted them the right way... :) Happy reading!
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United States
6661 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   09:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It would also help if you could rotate the images 90 degrees to the right, so that it reads the right way.


Too funny Tony ! TomTom, I would have done the same thing as I couldn't tell which way was up. What an interesting piece ! I've never seen one that reads like a book the way that one does, thanks for posting it.
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Valued Member
Sweden
141 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   09:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tomten to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Haha, I never noticied that.. 90 degrees to the right, so that it reads the right way.. Now I am unsure if I twisted them the right(correct) way!

Yes that is what really fascinated me, more so that I had no clue what the slips were for or what they say..

About the pictures, I know that I didn't always get the full text on the slips, but they seem very fragile so I didn't dare to flex them all the way for a better view of the top(?). Hope it's readable!
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Edited by Tomten - 11/11/2011 11:48 am
Valued Member
Sweden
141 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   12:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tomten to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe the slips, if they as you say, have names and adresses on them might be because it was to the ship Freiburg.. and they had to change the adress as the ship sailed before the letter arrived?

EDIT: Oh and the CDS that is on the last picture with the date, probably says "VICKLEBY". "by"=village in Swedish. They lived there.
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Edited by Tomten - 11/11/2011 12:34 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 11/11/2011   5:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK: Sorry about the delay, Tomten - your flipped scans arrived just after I'd switched off for the night. Now it's morning, and my brain is working slightly more efficiently as well

Most of these slips have printed text down the right and left hand sides, which reads 'Postal article being held for the reason stated at left' (the reason is written in here, usually illegibly) then there is a space for the date (usually obscured except for the day, unfortunately) and finally at far left 'Nagasaki Post & Telegraph Office'.

I will work through the slips in the order you've shown them.

1. 'Awaiting German ...' , illegible CDS
2. Printed slip. Text: 'The individual ... docked ...'
3. Printed slip. Text: '... ship ...'
4. Printed slip. Text illegible, dated 4 March
5. 'German Consulate' CDS for Hizen, Nagasaki dated 4 March 1895?
6. Printed slip. Text illegible
7. Printed slip. Text refers to German Consulate. Hizen, Nagasaki CDS of 4 February 1895?
8. Printed slip. Text illegible
9. Printed slip. Text: 'Not present today'
10. Illegible
11. Printed slip. Text: 'Ship not in port'

The years in the CDSs seem fairly clear: Meiji Year 28, which converts to 1895. I can't explain this, I'm afraid.

So basically all these slips relate to failed attempts to deliver the letter, and enquiries at the German Consulate. Sorry I can't be more helpful with some of the text, but the handwriting is old and rather careless
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Valued Member
Sweden
141 Posts
Posted 11/12/2011   05:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tomten to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's no problem Tony. As I guessed then! I thank you for your efforts trying to translate this.

Oh and the order I shown them.. must mean that "1." is the last message and "11." the first.. Too bad there is no letter inside the cover :/ Would've been much more interesting!

This is a long shot, but you don't happen to know anyone who's more used to older handwriting and such? :) I'd really like to find out more about what it says!

I will try and see if there is any information about the Ship Freiburg from 1895 at all on the Web.
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Valued Member
Sweden
141 Posts
Posted 11/12/2011   06:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tomten to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Freiburg: Lüneburg class (Type 701) replenishment ship

I found on Wikipedia.. According to this page http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/l...nglloyd.html and you ctrl+f search for Freiburg, it says it was built 1900..
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 11/12/2011   07:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tomten, the only people I know of (not personally) are one or two academics who specialise in old Japanese. I have no idea whether they'd be prepared to help. However, I think you'll find that, even if they could read the postmen's scrawls, they'd basically be saying the same thing: couldn't deliver the letter because the addressee/ship hadn't arrived.

I'd guess there must have been two ships named 'Freiburg'. The Ships List one must be a later Freiburg; yours must be an earlier one.

It is a pity the letter isn't inside, but the cover is still interesting enough - all those attempts to deliver it! Would a modern post office try as hard?
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Valued Member
Sweden
141 Posts
Posted 11/12/2011   11:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tomten to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Alright, yes you're probably right..

Well, maybe Freiburg was rebuilt/upgraded in 1900 and then been put into The Ships List?(or the list is wrong!?) =)

I doubt it very much!
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