1702 And 1703 -- 13c Christmas On The Pond -- Difference?

Can someone explain or post a pic showing the difference between these two stamps?

Thanks!

This will explain it as well as any web site can:

http://arago.si.edu/index.asp?con=1...&tid=2039126

Here is a picture for comparison - 1702 is the top image:



The description in the 2011 Scott Specialized:




Steve

I don't understand why Scott would assign two major listing
numbers for the same stamp except for minor tagging and colour
differences.

Then again by now nothing should surprise me when it
comes to Scott's inconsistencies.

Another "trick" is to notice the background behind the word "Christmas". The #1702 tends to have a reddish tint.

These 2 stamps were printed by 2 different types of presses. The differences are fundamental (unique to the printing press used), rather than just tweaks to the ink or change in the year date. Remember, Scott assigns a major catalog number to a stamp just because it was sliced up into coils instead of sheets (i.e., there is absolutely no difference in design/color/tagging/paper, only the format in which it was issued).

But, yes, if it were me, I would have assigned it a minor catalog number.

And yes, Scott is renowned for being consistently inconsistent.

I thought the BEP only had the Andreotti press for photogravure at
that time.


What was the other?

You are correct. Check the first link I provided where this is explained as follows ... tagging is different, text at bottom is different, and as noted, the Scott 1702 was printed in sheets of 200 subjects; the Scott 1703 in sheets of 230 subjects:

OK thanks wt1, I didn't see the link but only read tomiseksj's
quotes from Scott.

OK, thanks.

I think I've got it -- I have a couple with heavy cancels over the sky ... I am going off the grey print at the bottom and the not-so-red sled and I think I've got them all now, even though the colors are less obvious on some than others.

Prior to that stamp, yes, I believe there was only the Andreotti gravure press produced by Andreotti S.P.A. However, #1703 was produced by the brand new "A Press".




And I suggest that is an oversimplification of the Andreotti Press "category" and misleading. I am guessing that the author of the website was mislead by the way Scott presents the listings for #1702 and #1703, causing the reader unfamiliar with the Combination Press to assume that both #1702 and #1703 were produced by the exact same Andreotti Press. In their catalog, Scott discusses the Combination Press AFTER #1703. What Scott doesn't explicitly mention is that #1703 was the first stamp produced by the Combination Press.

Yes, #1702 was printed with what is commonly referred to as the Andreotti gravure press.

#1703 was printed with what is commonly referred to as the A press (combination intalgio/gravure). It is true that only the gravure (no intaglio) part of the A press was used to print #1703. It is also true that the A press utilized an Andreotti gravure section, but built by Keonig and Bauer; Giori was the contractor for the A Press. It is a different press. It is also true that in some cases, the gravure cylinders could be used on both the Andreotti gravure press and the A press, but this is not always the case.

In the print literature (multiple sources), you will see that the A Press (or Combination Press) is recognized as a different press from the original Andreotti gravure press produced by Andreotti S.P.A.

For those of you who have the Durland catalog, most of this press information is given in greater detail in Appendix E.

I am willing to accept the possibility that I have misunderstood this all these years, and am open to correction -- but I would like some references so that I can verify. Thank you!

k

UV lamp is the quickest way. But if you don't have a UV lamp, then yes I would say the grey print is the way to go.