A Question About US Postage Permit

Is there any chance to find out from which period is a cover with this permit?

Not exact but as close as I can find:

B1. Pitney Bowes (FV), 1920.

"U.S.POSTAGE" at top, value in center.
Permit number, with "P" prefix, at bottom of frank.
M# vertical between TM and frank.
TM: DC
Values:1¢ green [$30], 2¢ red [$10], 4¢ brown [$50], 5¢ red [$150], 10¢ yellow [$300]

a. Any value in a color other than the ones noted [add $200]

Taken From http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Intern...p_and_bottom

Thanks a lot, StampStudy! You also gave me a wonderful link...

These are tricky, and I have mus-identified these meter indicia often. The above is not a metered postage indicia, but a permit notice. These are not cataloged as far as I know.

Do keep in mind that the category B indicia will have the meter number right next to the indicia (none is seen in filipo's example). Also, the fake killer bars are quite thin in the meter indicia, and these on the shown piece are too thick. Lastly, the color black was not used to print these.

This is probably a permit notice from the 1940's or earlier, as these will show a given value of postage. Later permits do not do so.

Maybe it will be helpful if I show the entire cover...

I would say your permit cover comes from the late 1910's to 1920's era. That's my best guess.

Thanks, Smauggie!

here are a few links you may enjoy on this topic.
meters
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Intern..._outer_frame.
machine cancels
http://www.machinecancel.org/

You can't go wrong posting these links . . .

Even if the item in question is neither of these.

Thank you for info Smauggie - nice to learn something new

Drew

The permit number and Letter rate make it an early usage.

It would have to be 1920's at the earliest -- history dictates that Pitney Bowes was the first to be licensed by the USPOD to produce meters in 1920, so we know it cannot be any earlier than that date.

@ wt1: This is not a Pitney-Bowes meter. This is an early permit cover. I explained why this is not a meter in my previos posts.

The B Indicia PB meter was designed to be similar to the permit covers of the day, which can make it very challenging to try to identify this particular indicia.

My understanding was that since Pitney Bowes was the first to be "licensed" to produce any kind of meter/permit cover no company would have produced anything earlier than that 1920 license. If I am mistaken, I'd like to see a reference to confirm anything earlier.

(The ones shown in the Postage Meter Catalog posted above were all "experimentals" prior to 1920.)

Smauggie is correct, it is not a PB Meter, but a simple permit cover.

I think there is some confusion. It is correct that PB was licensed to produce meters/permits to sell to OTHERS. But...

The post office also issues permits to individuals/companies that can ONLY be used by the individual or company, and cannot be resold to others. These are still available today, and the user is free to make his own stamper/postmark as long as it conforms to USPS rules. Your example, looks like it was made from a handstamp, but I am not knowledgeable about these things so don't hold me to it.

As indicated on that cover, the permit holder number as well as the amount is shown. The permit holder information will be on file at that post office. USPS no longer requires the amount to be shown, since in general, the mail must be handed in to the permit holder's post office and they will tabulate a grand total.

You will not find it in the Postage Meter Catalog as the catalog does not include Permit Mail, only Meters.