Postmark And Grill Questions.

Hi - I occassionally buy storage units at auction (like storage wars). But usually the valuable stuff isn't hiding in my units. I recently got one with a small amount of stamps, envelopes, papers, etc. I know zero about stamps. Please forgive me - I posted a similar question on the big auction site's forum. The first question is about a "assorting house" postmark. Is anyone familiar with it? The other question comes from what was listed on the outside of a possible grill stamp, and it saying it is really early. Any insights? Thanks very much - Mark

Welcome Elvis. I can't help with the postmark but someone will come along with knowledge regarding it. As far as the Grilled 3 cent Washington I'm afraid that even if it is rare that the condition will all but remove any value since the entire right side is torn off. The only real way to tell which Grill it is would be to lift the Stamp as there were many Grills used on this particular Stamp. I would not recommend trying to lift the Stamp yourself but there are a few expertizers that can do it but they charge a fee for this and it's probably going to be more than the piece is worth. But if it is the vary rare Gril then it still might be worth a few bucks.

Here is a very informative site on the Grills used on US Stamps.

http://www.jamesdire.net/grill.html

If you can in person clearly see where all 4 sides of the grill end you can take a measurement (metric I believe in MM) and that will designate which grill it is. Also counting the number of points across and down can help ID. However there are a couple that are really close. The note is interesting and the cancel date could make this a unique although very beat up stamp.

I doubt if it's anything other than an E or F grill. Not the right color for D grill or Z grill which are both usually rose or a shade of rose. It can't be an A or we'd all be able to see it as it would cover the entire stamp. B is really large, only 4 exist and all 4 4were found on the same cover in Texas and there were huge doubts that they were a different grill at all. That leaves C possible. Do the points of the grill come out of the face of the stamp or are they pointed down? Up could be a C but it stillis the color of the later grills, E and F. Hope this helps, Ray

The Assorting House postmark may be from the Albany and New York Railroad.

Wow - what great help. I looked over the linked grill site. I understand the concept. I am using a very cheap handheld magnifying glass to look for the grill. I'm not seeing it. Do I need a better glass or a microscope? It will probably be a few days before I can get one. Does a typical grill give a "blotchy" appearance of a mark, or an non-uniform, or even "grayed" out postmark? Thanks for the warm welcome-M

3 cent with grills issued in in 1867: A, B, C, D, Z, E and F. (I think that is all of them.) Prices realized in recent times are: A- $850, B- $155,000, C- $180, D $200, Z- $1,400, E and F $10 or less. All prices are for good condition stamps. Taking into account that the color in your scan could be off, your stamp could potentially be any one of these but it is difficult to tell from the scan. The bullseye cancel is not strong enough for my amateur eyes to determine if the, somewhat weak, grill points are up or down. But the scan is good enough to say without doubt that it is not an A grill.The torn major damage will drastically reduce its value regardless of which grill it is. Hopefully someone can chime in on possibilities in relation to the date cancel. It is worth trying to find out.

Earliest Known Use (EKU) from Scott Specialized:

79- A Grill- 8/13/1967
82- B Grill- 2/1/1869
83- C Grill- 11/16/1867
85- D Grill- 2/1/1868
85C- Z Grill- 2/12/1868
88- E Grill- 2/12/1868
94- F Grill- 3/21/1868

There are no documented earlier uses, as mentioned on the note that was found-- and under what authority is this note written? My thoughts are that the note was written by someone who was trying to fabricate something.

Your best bet is to have the item and notes expertized. Again what would be of interest would be a documented EKU, as the stamp wouldn't be worth even 1/10th of the cat value. And as I look at it, I'm not sure anyone could really say that the stamp is tied to the cover by the Circular Date Stamp. On the bottom where it cuts into the stamp, it looks like it's very weak, and the curve should be visible in the perfs. I think it may have been drawn in on the stamp.

Just one man's opinion.....thanks for posting this.
Ray

I can't say one way or the other as I'm not a grill specialist but I can tell you what to look for as far as grills go.
It is either a small square or over/in the whole stamp. It used to be a practice of ironing these out so some are almost undetectable. Also sometimes just it's age and material(the paper)it's printed on deteriorates and flattens out depending on how it was stored. Anyways-
Here is your grill.

Thanks to all. A bit redundant - I took a few pictures of the other stamps with the grill one (sorry about the redundancy). Just thought there might be something of interest in the rest. -M

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...luvs/stamps/

Elvis-- the 3c examples in your photobucket album are all fairly common, yet very collectable, examples of 19th century fancy cancels. These stamps are collected for the cancels, not the stamp.

You have some target cancels-- the most common type, not adding any real value (you can probably tell which ones are called "target cancels").

One is a "shield" cancel (middle 2nd row)-- again a common type, but instead of the stamp costing less than a buck on ebay, the nice strike of the shield cancel might get you anywhere between $5-$15.

1st in 2nd row is identified in a reference (Skinner & Eno), as
either GE-C 110, 112 or 113 (Type Geometric circle, #110, or 112 or 113, they're all similar), from NY City, again fairly common, and again $5-$15 on ebay.

2nd in 2nd row is not listed in S&E, but is listed in Billig's Handbook Volume #33, which is a reference from the '60s that has values attached-- not accurate today, but if it said J (scarce- over $100), it's worth a lot more today. If it said A (up to $1.00), it's common, and whatever the buyer is willing to spend. This cancel is #862, from NY City, described as "circular", and is A off cover, and B on cover. Nice strike-- again, it's in the $5-$15 range on ebay. Maybe more for this one.

4 and 5 on the middle row are very common cork cancels "wedge" cancels. There are many different wedge cancels with different sizes, and numbers of wedges. Again very common on these two.

The piece you have, which may have some value, but it is a bad strike, is 4th on the top row, I can't speak to, because I don't collect this issue, but looks like a flower or a rose cancel. Some of the rose cancels are from Waterbury, CT. There are books just on the Waterbury cancels, which are some of the rarest and most valuable. Most famous is the "kicking mule" worth thousands of dollars. It would be better if this was on cover-- to know where it originated from. Don't want to get your hopes up-- it's a bad strike, but you might want to look farther on this one.

Any other opinions out there on the flower cancel?

Hope this helps-- Ray


2nd in 2nd row

Ray - it helps enormously!! The postmark you referred to is New York :( The only other mark I have looks a little bit like a beard. I will put a pic up today/ tomorrow. Much appreciated- m

I have several of the assorting house marks. On closer inspection - they are on pieces of paper(not envelopes or cards). I am thinking they are money bag/ money count receipts.

Last 2- thankshttp://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...tamps002.jpg

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...tamps003.jpg

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...tamps001.jpg