64 64A 64B Identification

Hello all, I picked up a very nice album at the flea market yesterday. I will post pictures later. Anyway these lovely specimens were in the album. I need help with color identification. 64, 64a, 64b? One of them looks darker then the rest I thin. Pink, pigeon blood pink, rose pink, I don't know. I leave these for an expert to decide. Regardless, I am really happy with them, the centering is very good and the stamps are just beautiful. Here are the stamps.

One looks darker then the rest, is that one rose pink?

Those shades are very difficult.

Unfortunately, I fear the calibration of various scanners, imaging software, and computer monitors will introduce too much variation to make identification possible without seeing the actual stamps.

KirkS

Anyone up for the challenge?

The previous comment does not imply a challenge, it says that any comment as to shade made based upon an uncalibrated scan from an uncalibrated monitor has no veracity associated with it.

Simply put - any comment from a scan would be only a wild ass guess and wouldn't be worth the bits invested in it. Now, if there was a visible date, (e.g. 1861), a copy of a known entity that could be a reference, etc., the odds of accuracy would increase - but still not above any level that you could take to the bank.

If you want to judge shades, get yourself some certified reverence copies, match them with your "patients," and then have the ones you think are pinks certified to validate your ability to color match. That's the ONLY way to do it for real.

By the way - the odds that any 3c 1861 is a pink is about 1700 to 1, if I recall correctly. 100,000 pinks issued, compared to 1,700,000,000 roses.

Edited comment - my math was off - it's 17,000 to 1

The date in the album said 1861-1862 and it said second issue if that helps.

Where should I go to have it identified?

I don't think any of them are pink. If any of them have a chance, it may be the last one. But there is some toning on that stamp, so hard to tell. The toning to me, makes it look like there's some brown in the stamp-- but again from a scan it's really difficult. The reason I think it might be pink/ rose pink, is when you look at the ornaments on the far corners of the stamp, they are very weak and almost invisible-- that's very normal for pink.

The first one-- look at the lattice work next to the left side of the head, right above the eyes, between the cancel markings. See how strong the white lines are? With pink, it's blurred, and not as sharp. I think it's rose.

Chip is absolutely correct. The best way on these, is to compare with a known 64 or 64b-- and under a light that is either pure white, or has a spectrum that produces normal daylight. Ott Lites are really good for this. You can buy them at Wal-Mart or at Lowe's for between $35 and $55.

When you have a light rose that looks really pink, next to a rose pink, under an Ott Lite, you can really see what I'm saying here.

Hope this helps-- Ray

To send for I'D, see the other 64, 65 topic. I've posted Bill Weiss' website there.
I think it is www.stampexpertizing.com

Hope this helps,Ray

Thanks ray.mac is that the best way to identify them? 5 dollars a pop? Is it worth it because chances are they are the 3 dollar rose pink right? Thanks everyone for responding.

Also whats toning?

Doesn't the bottom of the bottom stamp have a completely different color than the very top of the stamp to you? They aren't made that way, so something has changed on the bottom of the stamp. To me, from the scan, it looks like it's got some brown in the color. These old stamps can change a lot over the years. We don't know how they've been kept since 1861-2-3.

I personally have 2 certs, both 64's, that say that the stamp has some toning. I think you have some on that stamp also-- any other opinions out there?

Thanks, Ray

Best way to ID is completely up to you.
I've given Bill directions like this in the past: "ID only, but if it's either of the 64's, please add a color certificate".

That way, you only pay $5 to have him tell you it's a 65. And then you have a color cert if it's a 64 or 64b.

I send stuff to Weiss all the time. The prices are very reasonable. For me to have a cert, it's more peace of mind. Then I know the stamp is what I think it is and hope it is-- and trust me, when you are working with material like difficult color variations, grills, and Washington-Franklins, one may think that they're an expert, but still not have the stamp ID'd correctly-- I've had several come back bad, myself (I told Weiss that if he found a watermark on what I thought was a 491 a couple of years ago, I'd eat it. I never ate it, but he found a watermark I couldn't see).

Good luck. It's not enough money ($5 for ID) to worry about or fret over, and won't make you or break you. If you think you have something and want to know, send it for an ID at the very least.

Hope this helps-- Thanks, Ray

You should also be aware that sometimes even experts disagree on these 1861 shades. For example, I have a single stamp that is certified 64 pink by Bill Weiss, 64b rose pink by the PF, and certified 65 rose by PSE. All certs were obtained within a few months of one another.

Matt

You should also be aware that sometimes even experts disagree on these 1861 shades. For example, I have a single stamp that is certified 64 pink by Bill Weiss, 64b rose pink by the PF, and certified 65 rose by PSE. All certs were obtained within a few months of one another.

Matt

True about scanners, monitors and all the rest. But one simple thing I would suggest is, for comparison, scan all three stamps side by side in one go. That way you are eliminating possible variations from one scan to the next.
Just a thought.