Fake Cancellations

Here's the link.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/31058946984....m1438.l2648

I guess I misunderstood your original post. Thank you for your clarification.

My opinion remains the same -- I consider a fake cancel a fault. There's nothing wrong with having different standards/definitions, so long as we understand each other.

When a seller tells me a used stamp is sound, I expect the cancel to be genuine. I readily accept that not everybody uses the same standard or definitions, which is why it's always good to know your seller.

Anyway, this is getting the thread sidetracked, and I apologize to everyone for that. I'm still interested in reading the opinions of others regarding this stamp. I promise not to post any responses.

k

That was kind and trusting of you to post the link, Lpmiller.

Definitely a nice looking stamp. The pic is going into my reference files.

Thanks!

The right side has been reperforated, it does not match up with the other three sides. I have a strong suspicion that the right margin might have been added, if you look carefully there is a shadow running vertically on both sides of the scan, especially noticeable on the upper half of the stamp but it's on the bottom as well. I might be wrong, and even if true it is possible that the seller does not know the stamp has been repaired, although he knows about the cancel so I wonder. This stamp is severely overpriced, 10% of his asking price is probably more like it's value based on this scan.

Yeah, khj, that's my dilemma. Sure is nice looking. Don't think I'll ever be able to touch one again for that price. Have to admit though that I'm not too crazy about buying off a seller in Rome. May have to pass on this one.

So how do you tell the cancel is fake?

From a scan it is very difficult unless it's a well known fake. Usually an expert can tell that color and/or "look" are wrong (too shiny, or too dull, or raised ink from a laser printer, or something else), and putting the stamp under UV will usually show it, because most modern (almost all 20th century) inks will fluoresce and the contemporary inks of that era will not.

This is always a tough one. I don't know that I would ever really be able to own a well centered, genuine used sound example. I settled on one that is sound and well centered, even if the cert says "no opinion" with respect to the cancel.

Matt

Alas, 75 to 100 years ago 19th century ink was still available at times, so sometimes it is simply impossible to know the answer.
This stamp was always scarce used, and there have been dishonest people around stamps practically from the beginning, so there is no way to know when a fake cancel might have been created. And of course this one might well be genuine.

I find it amusing that the seller described the fake cancel as "nice"

I would pass on this if I was you. Like stated above (several times) it has always been a sought after stamp, and since it's more valuable used that opens the door to fakes and alterations. Counterfeiting and fakes of that have been around as long as that stamp has, and the only way to truly be absolutely positive about a genuinely used Scott #39 would be to have one on cover with a known and well documented cancellation and a valid and accredited certification saying so. Ultimately it's your call but I suggest not. All the best -ILS

I agree about passing on this, but I do think that there are certified off cover examples that are genuine. They have much clearer cancels than either of these stamps do.

I agree with the consensus. Pass on it.

The stamp is uncommon, not rare unused (no gum). I frequently see sound, unused copies sell for under $500. I purchased a certified unused copy for less than $400 a couple years ago.

Best of luck!

Brian

I've been looking at 39's for a while but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

I don't know how much "street cred" The Swedish Tiger has, but according to his website:

http://www.theswedishtiger.com/39-scotts.html

only 180 cancellations are certified genuine. On the other hand, most 90 cent stamps were used for mail to Europe. Coming from Italy may be a plus?

How lucky do you feel?

Dan

I woiuldn't touch it - period. Faked is faked - No matter that the stamp is real. A faked marking on it makes it worthless. P.T. Barnum was correct.