Help With Dumb Questions On Value Of Covers

I certainly cannot speak for stallzer, but here is one interpretation of what he is eluding to. I don't know if this practice still exists, but I do know that in the past, you could submit covers for a FDC cancellation up to several weeks AFTER the first day of issue had past. Also, if you were in the first day of issue city, you could hand-carry covers for the FDC cancellation, have the covers cancelled and handed back to you. So, many fdc's were (1) never cancelled on the first day of issue and/or (2) many never saw postal service delivery. If I was in the first day of issue location, I could mail a cover which had a fdc cancellation AND was postally sent to its destination. So the question is, should the postally sent cover be worth more since it is known to have been cancelled and sent on the first day of issue.

Great discussion about FDCs.

As in many cases, the definition of something can be different. I see that Stallzer and NCBuckeye are generally referring to FDC's that were primarily created by and for the purpose of getting that cancel (or a special cancel) on the first day of the stamp. or maybe even later (interesting tidbit ncbuckeye). So let's say generally this is the prevalent definition? And in general, a post war thing.

On the other hand, I was ignorantly referring to an FDC within my narrow Newfoundland collection, where my FDC's were simply covers (mostly prewar) that were not so commercially driven by the post office, but more or less just the first day of use. See the image that I just uploaded. Its a first day cover of C13 and C14 from St Johns to Washington DC. on the first day these stamps were available (according to Boggs history and NSSC as AM14 and AM15..both perf of 13.8 mot 14.3). Its nicely registered on a Frank Wills envelope (in NSSC as W085 Business Advertising cover). I paid $20 for it many years ago. The back has four cancels.

Enjoy

That I doubt is simply a business cover. However I personally like it and am more inclined to searching for these types than the standard FDC's. Once FDC's caught on they became a mass generated commodity IMHO. The earlier FDC's had a more personal appearance than covers with cachets.

That is a nice cover, tommy. Many of the early stamp issues, although the post office designated a "first day of use", the stamps were simply placed on sale by each post office when they got the stamps. Sometimes there is not an example of a "first day of use" cover, but an "earliest known use" (EKU). There are some collectors I have talked to at stamp shows who go to the shows to simply seek out covers with certain stamps trying to find a EKU cover for that stamp. Of course, if a new EKU is found for a particular issue, I can only imagine the torment caused to the owner of the previous EKU cover!

Tommy, when scanning, crop away the everything outside of the cover to get a much better scan. I scan my covers at 600 dpi and crop away all the unused part and then you get scans like this.



This is an example of a commercial cover. All First day covers are Philatelic by definition.

I don't think that all FDCs are philatelic by definition....

Some stamps are used commercially without any regard for it being the first day of issue.

Businesses or corporations would also send their mail in FDC envelopes as a promotional thing- would that be considered philatelic?

Yes. All First day covers are Philatelic by definition. I'm not saying that commercial covers can't have a first date of issue cancel.

What makes a cover Philatelic ? Here are just a few examples.


First day covers and first flight covers mailed on the first day of issue of a stamp.

Cacheted covers, sent on envelopes with additional artwork, usually relating to the theme of the stamp.

Covers with special or commemorative cancellations used temporarily by a post office.

Covers with cancellations from unusual places.

Covers sent to collect particular postal markings.

"One of everything" cover, all stamps of a new or old issue affixed to the cover.

Unnecessary mixed frankings.

Last day of service of a discontinued post office

I confess that I was a bit of a snob when it came to first day covers and the like. After years of following orthodox postal history practices I returned to what first attracted me to collecting- FDCs. I discovered a world of sophisticated specialization I had no idea existed. I attended an American First Day Cover Society show and was amazed at the quality of the exhibits. I planned on spending one day at the show and wound up taking in the full three days.

There is no shame in collecting "Philatelic covers". In fact this is a field where bargains are the norm (if you are into the money thing). It doesn't hurt that serious philatelists poo poo "philatelic covers". The more they call it junk, the easier and cheaper it is to acquire! Please, keep putting this stuff down.

However, there are "Philatelic covers" for which I have little use. Canada Post entered the FDC market in the 1970s, ultimately destroying the commercial FDC industry. At a recent Maresch auction over 100,000 of these were sold for a fraction of face value.

Having said that, I might start collecting them some day. As the saying goes "never say never".

Philatelic covers are celebrated here:

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot...lations.html

P.S. I still collect "commercial" covers.

Your are 100% correct. There is no shame in collecting anything that you are interested in and there are many FDC's I'd love to add to my collection.

Here is one of my favorite covers that I own, retail price of around a nickel but I love the Patriotic theme.

Remember that the definition of philatelic, philately, ... does not exclude what each of us considers non-desirable or overdone. I guess for me, it boils down to all commercial covers are philatelic but not all philatelic covers are commercial.

stallzer, one is not supposed to understand the meaning behind a profound and deep philosophical statement.

That gives me an idea for a topic entry (to come soon)!

In that case, I am with smauggie on this one

Checking the size of the population of cities and towns may also be useful. For example, mail postmarked from St. John's will be relatively more common that mail postmarked from Fogo, Newfoundland and Labrador (population 748, according to Wikipedia).

It is perhaps the same for WWII censored mail. Covers censored in New Caledonia will be harder to find than covers censored in England. Perhaps more expensive also.

Best wishes,
Andrew