Edited- Cert Received As Type III, #21!!

Just won this on ebay: 400628695480

SEE ACTUAL IMAGE LATER IN THIS TOPIC....

Trimmed perfs on lower right, but type Ic because the lower left plume, albeit weak, is complete and the lower right is almost complete.

I won't be able to plate it until it's in my hands but my guess is that it's one of the lesser valuable positions (c.v. $2000, not $6000), but nonetheless a very scarce and desirable US classic.

I'll scan and post an image when I have it in hand.....

To all, enjoy your holidays and have a blessed Christmas, Ray

You out-bid me on it Ray! Congrats!
Dave

Sweet looking stamp Ray.

Thanks Daryl--- haven't seen you much here, and good to see you out there. Take care, Happy New Year, Ray

That is a nice stamp.

The bottom left plume is not complete so this stamp is NOT Type Ic as I suspected. It is Position 50L4, which is one of the "swing" positions, and if it is an early impression it is type IIIa (#22), and if it is a worn impression and the bottom curve has a break, it is Type III (#21).

Obviously, I'm wanting this to be a #21....over $1000 difference in Scott CV. But the cancellation covers the bottom oval. I think it has a gap on the right side of the bottom of the curve, and that's where the break would be. So, I'll have to send this one in to be sure, and hate to do that with a flawed stamp, but hey, a 21 is a 21.....

Any opinions out there? Winston? It is a 1200dpi scan, so it can be blown up...


Thanks, Ray

This one is turning out the way I thought it was going to. The stamp could very well be a Type III but the cancel is in a very unfortunate location. I don't think any expert service should call this a Type III and I doubt my opinion would change if I had the stamp in hand. With a swing position you must have a clear view of the break or it defaults to a Type IIIa.

Have you tried Photoshop or Gimp to see if you can peek under the cancel? You might even try scanning in film mode. Might not be able to see the detail level you need, but maybe worth a shot.

I've enjoyed all the posts on these one cent Franklins. I had no idea there were so many varieties of this stamp. I find myself thumbing through the Franklin plating image archive almost daily.

Wow! You guys are amazing with the amount of knowledge you possess. I'm always riveted to the threads you come up with! Tank you and no matter what it turns out to be I think it's a stunner!

Thanks Winston-- It is definitely something to be concerned about. I just sent an email to Richard Doporto-- he doesn't have a 50L4 on the archive, and I bought a cheap pair on ebay a few months ago that I just looked at this afternoon, and it's 49-50L8, and he doesn't have 49L8 on the archive, and it isn't in Neinken.

So, I'm hoping that someone will be able to look at the 50L4 and hopefully be able to call it either way. I'd think that with the technology that is available, and maybe as raymodj suggested, Photoshop may be an option, someone could make a determination.

So also thanks to raymodj for the suggestion.

Thanks again, Ray

Here is the Doporto cert:


From an email I received from Richard Doporto around the time that I posted the image of the #21:

The 50L4 also is plated correctly as well.
I dont have a special way to see thru the cancel but it is a late 1858 printing and if I was to cert it we would call it a Type III. Why? We know all E reliefs by design have a broken top line. The issue is now the bottom line. The cancel is Oct 58 and perfs confirm a printing after July/Aug 57. So more than likely we can conclude the bottom line is broken or worn sufficiently wide by this time.

Again, it's not a great copy, but a Type III which is italicized in Scott, and a scarce, desirable, and difficult stamp I never thought I'd own......

For those of you who like the classics, and are not aware of Richard Doporto's website, it is one of the best references in philately that is available, and such an asset to the hobby:

http://www.slingshotvenus.com/Frank...hv_Main.html

I've provided Richard with 3 positions that are not currently in the archive: 49L4 (the Type Ic I posted awhile back), 8L5 (a Type Va), and 50L8 (I had a pair, and the left stamp plated to 49L8), and hoping that they'll all be available as images on the archive soon.

Trust me folks, if you like the classics, be on the lookout for a set of THE UNITED STATES ONE CENT STAMP OF 1851-1857 by Ashbrook, and then the update which corrects a lot of information by Neinken. The books are expensive, but they'll pay for themselves in what you can find by understanding this issue. I've only been doing this for a year now-- and with a lot of help from Winston Sinclair, and a few emails back and forth to Richard Doporto, I'm hopelessly hooked....

Take care, Ray

That's quite a find Ray, congratulations. Good thing it had a legible cancel date. Your posts are what got me hooked on the 1c Franklins, its really one of the most interesting US stamps. One could spend a lifetime hunting down varieties.

I've been looking for Neinken's book but I haven't seen any new listings in months. It's $150 on Amazon. I'm going to keep looking because Richard Doporto's website and images give me most of what I need at this stage of the game.

Wow, great find Ray!

*GASP!* Wow Ray! Congrats on the Type III. #21 50L4!

Congrats on a good bit of philatelic sleuthing. I know it feels very satisfying to dig out something new, and your success here is inspiring. Well done!

Awesome!

Congrats!