#11 Color Sampler - Show Your Images

Ryan,
I appreciate what you are trying to do but remain skeptical. While I do feel it is possible it improve the process of IDing subtle color shades via online postings I have concerns. For a handful of posters, this might be a good exercise but I question this approach for a large percentage of readers.

As we have seen from other threads, there are many less experienced posters who struggle with always thinking they have rarities. If we have threads like this one, which may lead less experienced hobbyists to think they are matching a subtle color shade for a rare stamp, I am not so sure we are helping those folks.

In my opinion the detection of subtle color shades requires a fair amount of experience and a good "in hand" reference set. (I think you acknowledge this when you state, "Comparing physical stamps to displayed images on a monitor is never going to be accurate".) So while it may be true that those which have these can be assisted further by threads like this one, my concern surrounds less experienced hobbyists. (Experienced = both philatelic and technical experience.) Those specialists which have the motivation to follow the technical aspects of the thread might benefit, I am not so sure that the non-specialists will.

If you push forward and develop a technical specification for IDing stamps using technology, I hope you consider adding a warning or "heads up" for the method. At best and in the hands of experienced and technically suave hobbyists, stamp color shading deltas can be intelligently discussed. But I would hate to see a bunch of inexperienced hobbyists IDing some of these subtle color shades and thinking they have rare stamps based solely upon some scans and online feedback.

Is becoming technical proficient less work or more productive than becoming more educated on the stamp issues themselves? For some folks this may be true, for others probably not. So I encourage you to continue your efforts but hope everyone understands the qualifiers. At the end of the day, many stamps cry out for a cert and not informal opinions. So in my opinion the "end game" for this approach is not to properly ID a stamp, but rather to assist in the decision on whether or not to spend money on a cert. Obviously no one wants to start seeing ebay listings with, "I calibrated my scanner, used RGB settings, and therefore this stamp is rare" as the justification.
Don

PS - My opinion is that monitor deltas are not insignificant. Nor are deltas between monitor models and/or video cards and their drivers. (Ever see a bunch of monitors lined up displaying the same thing? There are always color and image deltas between them. In fact just getting two monitors, of the same model type, to be display the exact same image is often difficult.) And we have not really covered ambient light deltas or the likelihood of significant differences in color detection in human eyes. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the significance of these variables.

The stamp in the center is different than any others I have. It originally caught my eye because of its brownness. But, I wonder if it was messed with to remove the cancel? Even the paper has a different look.

Here is a scan of the back. The center stamp (the one in question) is on the left and the right hand stamp is still to the right. The left (OB) stamp not included, it's attached to a piece.

Stampcrow,

I'm not seeing much orange in the OB (amazing cancel, by the way!), which leads me to believe the color of your scan may be off, although there are OBs a little more on the brown side.

At a glance, your middle stamp looks brownish claret, but as with many other examples, it would have to be seen in person to be classified properly. The paper is certainly toned, complicating color assessment, even in person. The center stamp was printed from plate 4 and, by far, most of my brownish Clarets were printed from plate 4.

I will add that to my "?color?" group. I did figure it for plate four, so that's a good sign.

It's a shame I wasn't involved when my wife purchased this scanner.

At some point, I'd like to see some of your stamps so I can classify them by color, or send you a small color sample set so you can compare with your collection.

In reference to your recent images, toned paper and even colored cancels can be distracting when studying ink color. So stamps on untoned paper with black cancels, like your pen-canceled example above, are best for color study.

I'll try to scan a brownish claret with some similar colors for comparison this morning.

I didn't have time to post a brownish claret scan this morning. I'll try for late tonight.

Thanks CC!

OK, much later than I hoped, here is a brownish claret shown with five similar or related colors for comparison; pale claret, medium claret, deep claret, yellow brown, and brownish carmine.

Standard disclaimer: This image was acquired with an uncalibrated scanner set to sRGB color space with histogram adjustments made to most closely match the actual stamps' color.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and have learned a lot. I'm convinced that the only way to properly ID the 10's is by plating--surely some of these color shades can change a bit based on how and with what electronic devices we choose to view them. And let's not forget that they have been handled for over 150 years. I'm surely no techy, and I'm relatively new to the plating scene. So, what type of scanner should I be looking to purchase so I can post quality images of my plating efforts? I need to get my letter posted to Santa (read wife) soon.

Achilles,

I've owned Epson and Canon scanners over the last 15 or so years, and I've been much happier with both the scan detail and color reproduction of Epson scanners. My claret #11/11A set above was done with an Epson Perfection V370 scanner.

For an example of the same Epson scanner's higher-resolution capabilities (for plating efforts), see my below post:

https://goscf.com/t/46610#399034

Achilles,
For plating purposes you want a high optical resolution, 4800dpi or higher is ideal. This is not always described on the box, but is usually located in the "Specifications" area of the user manual. Make sure that resolution is what the scanner's sensor is capable of and not just what resolution of file that it can output.

For future proofing, I'd go with:

• 4800dpi or higher optical resolution
• LED illuminated
• 16-bit per color channel capable (48-bit total)
• Capable of dust removal (not a deal-breaker though)

Classic Coins's suggestion meets all of those requirements and I've never heard a bad thing said about that model. I don't have a manufacturer preference, but Epson products are liked by many. Checking consumer reviews for things like ease of use and reliability are very helpful. For example, I've worked on quite a few models of Mercedes that did not live up to the level of quality that the name is known for. Conversely, Hewlett-Packard has on rare occasion produced a product capable of printing that doesn't require immediate banishment to the Ninth Circle of IT support Hell.

Bundled software can also help you make your choice. I do a lot image processing and find that free software meets all of my needs except for one, 16-bit per color channel editing. There are free options, but they are not ideal. For a paid/bundled example, Photoshop Elements 12 and higher works well for this purpose. This functionality isn't needed until you get into color accuracy critical stuff and can always be bought later. PSE 14 is currently $60. Free software such as GIMP is working towards a 16-bit major release that could happen any day now.

Santa allocating $100 to $300 will get you a scanner that is capable of everything that you need for many years to come. Second hand ones capable of all of the above can be scored for as low as $25 at times.

P.S. Welcome to the fold :)

Thanks CC. You too DNA. I'm passing this info to Santa tomorrow morning...perhaps she'll buy early. Thanks guys.

I just plated a pair I purchased at a local stamp show a couple of weeks ago. It took me way too long. I kept coming back to it. Would have been much quicker had I recognized that faint gash in the shoulder. The pair has relief B on the left and C on the right--positions 65R6 and 66R6.