US Scott # 542 And # 543

For Scott # 542 is the horizontal Kiusalas 10-80 and the vertical Kiusalas 11-72 or 11-72.5 or 11-73?

For Scott # 543 is the horizontal Kiusalas 10-80 and the vertical Kiusalas 10-80 or 10-79.5 or 10-79?

Do you find a slight difference between any of them?

Jogil -

I admit, I had no idea what you were talking about until I looked up Kiusalas.

For others wondering about it, it is a different standard perf guage that I would have to call "obscure". Here's a short discussion about it here ... https://goscf.com/t/9828

As to your question - Scott does not recognize the Kiusalas perf guage in any publication I have ever read. Therefore, the vast (and I do mean vast) majority of US specialized collectors will not have a clue what you are asking, let alone be able to answer your question.

That doesn't make it a bad question - it just requires a more in-depth explanation from you.

I would begin by asking if anyone has documented or published information on US stamps using the Kiusalas perf guage, then go from there.

Brian

Hi Brian.

Sometimes I can get carried away on here by forgetting that this forum has different stamp collectors collecting and looking into different things than I am collecting and looking into.

What I was trying to mainly ask with regards to the above is whether one finds on U.S. Scott # 543 if the horizontal perforations are slightly different than the vertical perforations even though they are both considered to be perforation 10.

The reason being is that this Stickney rotary sheet stamp was perforated by a combination bar and wheel perforator with the bars perforating the horizontal perforations and with the wheels perforating the vertical perforations.

Thanks.

I saw this old post and thought I'd respond. (Now that I have a better Gauge.

542's 4 stamps all measured 10-80 Horz. 1 11-73 Vert, and 3 11-72.5 Vert.

543's 3 stamps all measured 10-80 Horz and Vert.

Ron

Did you use a Sonic Imagery perforation gauge or a Kiusalas perforation gauge? The Sonic gauge has 11-72.5 while the Kiusalas gauge does not. The fact that 11-72.5 exists for what is mostly supposed to be 11-73 puts into question the other Kiusalas measurements as well somewhat.

I used a Sonic

jogil, I just got through measuring a couple of #543s before getting on the board to read recent posts. Ironic I guess. Both measured horizontally 10-81 on the Kiusalas gauge (Using the Sonic Imagery gauge). Using a standard MM perf. gauge, they measure 9-1/2. They measured 10-80 in the vertical, perf. 10 on a MM gauge. There is an article in the April '89 journal issue of the USSS by Larry Weiss where he discusses the Kiusalas gauge and results from testing it. In the article, he states that the has found only #448 and #543 rotary stamps to perf. 10-81, but he doesn't state that he was measuring the horizontal, vertical or both, but based on reading the article, I'm thinking he's talking about the horizontal. Weiss stated the #543 10-81 was "decidedly difficult to find". Don't know exactly what he bases that on.

I am not sure that I agree, but check the hole size. Some early vertical coils may have had a "bar" with larger pins. I don't know if the spacing is different or not, but I haven't checked. I don't recall Kiusalas mentioning top and bottom spacing differences but he did express the opinion or concern that the Bureau set up some experimental pin configurations before settling on a standard. As far as I know this is all speculation. A multiple with 10-81 or 11-73 spacing would be required. As for 11-72.5, I am not sure it existed if measured over multiple stamps. Kiusalas believed that if 11-73 existed, that it might have been an experiment, part of a series that finally led to the 11-70 x 10½-75 gauge that became the standard for rotary press sheet stamps. Several articles have appeared recently claiming that small differences exist in otherwise "standard" perforations. Making such a determination on a single stamp would be risky. Accurately measuring, or better, comparing across a multiple could produce better results.

I do know that "small hole" horizontal Scott 496 coils exist. The hole spacing is the same but the amount of paper between holes is larger than the holes instead of smaller. One millimeter can be used as the rough go/no-go break between large and small holes subject to a more detailed look. Again, no explanation for the larger holes on some vertical coils, but check the hole spacing.

Clark

Scott # 542 (10 x 11) and # 543 (10 x 10) are Stickney rotary press sheet stamps that were perforated by a Stickney bar and wheel perforator. The horizontal perforations were made by perforating bars and the vertical perforations were made by perforating wheels. The Kiusalas 10-80 (and 10-81) from the bar of the Stickney bar and wheel perforator is the same as the one used for Stickney rotary press coil stamps, but the bar used for sheet stamps is double the length of the bar of the Stickney coil bar perforator used for coil stamps.