#423B Buy Expertization Or Buy Lottery Tickets?

I have had this "423B compound perf" for quite some time; I have it mounted in my collection with a 'fake?' penciled in beside it. Assuming that this is a faked stamp is logical since chances that it is a real compound perf is very, very low. But recently I had the opportunity to scan this stamp in high resolution and I took a close look at the perfs; they looked a little better than I recall them looking when I first found the stamp. The stamp also has some condition issues.

Sending this stamp in for expert analysis is not outrageously expensive but it isn't particularly cheap either. Do I save my money and buy some lottery tickets instead? Does anyone recognize the cancellation and does it help identify the stamp at all?
Thanks in advance for any opinions/input.
don



High resolution image here
http://stampsmarter.com/images/423B.jpg

Here's are interesting pages that shows other copies for comparison purposes.

http://www.siegelauctions.com/lot_g...lledfrom=lkp

http://www.stampexpertizing.com/

Bill Weiss charges $5 for identification of stamps regardless of catalogue value. This does not include a certificate. If you want a certificate, it will cost you $10 if not a 423b or $75 if it is.

I recommend sending it in for the $5 ID service, and requesting a cert if it turns out to be a 423b.

Brian

Thanks Brian. I did Bill's new web site for him and we have been collaborating on some articles including fakes and forgeries. (This is actually what prompted me to do the high res scan of this stamp.) I have previously shown images of this stamp to Bill but he recommended other resources for the identification.

Thanks jogil; like you I often turn to Siegel's power search for good examples of stamps and covers. I had previously noticed that noted that many of the Siegel compound perfs images had the machine 'wavy' cancel, I wasn't sure if the cancel shown on this stamp rules it out of the running for a compound perf. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks again,
don

I think I'd want to know one way or the other. I've started sending in some I have had for a while--its time to know one way or the other for me.

Have you checked the perforations on a Kiusalas perforation gauge? The perforations do appear oval rather than round and they show fibers in them. This makes them look original. Have you tried the Srail perforation test? The srail test involves comparing the picture of the stamp perforations on one side with those on the other side by overlapping a copy of one picture with a copy of the same picture. See the following link which may be helpful: http://www.americanstampcollection....s/viewer.php Check out your stamp using the different tools.

The resolution of your stamp picture appears to be 2400 dpi. Here is the link with your stamp picture in it: http://www.americanstampcollection....jpg&dpi=2400

Jogil,
Thanks for the input/link.
The perfs line up very, very well when measured against each other (Srail). The perfs on the '12" sides appear to me to be 12-66. The perfs on the '10' sides appear to me to be 10-80.
Like you I was a bit surprised to see ovals/fibers; the fiber don't appear to be added by any mechanical means.

But the chances that this stamp is real is very low (add in my luck and that brings it to the 'slim to none' level). I was hoping that someone might be able to add input on the cancel that would rule out (or at least greatly lessen) the possibility of it being real.

I don't know is I should throw some money at this or not. I used to think I was indecisive; but now I am not so sure.
don

The 10-80 vertically on your stamp is a usual coil perforation, but 10-80 is a rotary press coil perforation where as 10-79 is a flat plate perforation which is what I get from the website tool for the vertical perforations and the stamp appears to be a flat plate stamp. However, there are flat plate stamps that have been found with the 10-80 perforations instead of 10-79 perforations and they are more like 10-79.5 as being closer to it. If it was forged, then # 444 with perforation 12 horizontal added to the coil with perforation 10 vertical would be the easiest one to do. The grain of the paper and the orientation (horizontal or vertical) of the watermark will have to also be considered.

If it were mine, I'd send it in. About $30 for the PF to give a "fake" opinion, of course more if it turns out to be genuine.

Matt

I'd certainly want to know! Bill Weiss 5 dollar I.D.!

Maybe we should take a vote on the stamp after hearing both sides (pro and con) of the issue.

I found this post while searching for 'srail'. I'm curious, did you have this stamp expertized, or are you still 'indecisive'?

No, still sitting in my collection with a 'fake?' penciled in beside it. I could probably take advantage of my friendship with Bill Weiss and get him to put his eyeballs on it but I have convinced myself that the chances it is real is low.
Don

I would feel the same about this stamp if it were in my collection. However, no member said this stamp looks faked or altered. IMO (not an expert) if it's a fake, it is a very good one. Barring any new contrary comments from our many resident experts I would either send it in or as you said, get Bill's opinion.

I personally would recommend that this stamp be sent to APEX, because two of the most qualified experts for these issues (Ken Lawrence and Clark Frazier) both work for APEX. I don't remember why I told Don to go elsewhere, but it was surely not because I wouldn't work on his item for free - which I would, in a heartbeat, but rather because I don't consider myself to be the best person to pass judgment on it, so think it is best sent to APEX. If Clark Frazier sees this thread (he was away at Harford for 4-5 days) he may choose to comment here. The downside risk in sending to APEX is about $35. if it's no good.

The stamp should be sent for expertizing. The gauge based on the metadata in the scan is 12-66 by 10-79. The perforations passed a marquee (bounding box test) and the margins were consistent with 3.0 mm horizontal spacing and vertical spacing of about 2.7 mm (the stamp is large enough). Still direct examination is needed. The cancel appears to be related to shipping a parcel or package. Also, the stamp has several faults. In addition to the APS, PSE has a promotional rate that caps the price of a good cert for grade 60 or less at a much lower fee. Check with them for details.

I could look look at the perforations, but I haven't seen enough compound perforations to have an opinion about the shade.

Clark