Is This 387 Coil Pair Real?

Dear all, I would like to seek the experts' advice on whether this is a genuine 387 coil pair, or a fake. Thanks in advance.

I'm no expert on coils but it looks like a legitimate line pair to me. Not sure of the Catalog number but if legit then it's a superb pair.

I'll have to defer to the experts also, but my eye is drawn to the right side perfs that look shorter and too cleanly cut. It could be nothing more than someone who could have used a scissors or a knife to separate those stamps as opposed to the perfs on the left side of the pair which look as if they were simply torn apart.

(But then again, maybe I'm reading too much into it.)

Let the experts chime in.

I'm no expert either, but here are three observations:
1. The perforations are not aligned horizontally.
2. The center line of perforation holes seem to be larger than holes on the edges, but that may be an optical illusion.
3. The center line of holes seem to waver with respect to the guide line.

Robert

There are many faked coil stamps, perhaps as many faked as genuine, for the early W/F coil stamps.
Some thing to check for this pair:
Measure the stamp from straight edge to straight edge in several different places. Must measure a minimum of 21.0mm and should measure ideally 21.5mm (sometimes a bit more) and be consistent along the entire pair.
Double or single line watermark? Watermark horizontal or verticle? Should be single line horizontal to be #387 Verticle watermarked would indicate a booklet pane pair (not likely to have been used to fake this issue--but possible). Perforations appear to be 12-check for consistency in spacing. Check the perforation holes--should be signs of stretching consistently in one direction on all three perforation lines. Perfectly rounded holes without stretching and some evidence of ragged fibers indicates a fake. Perforation holes need not align in the three perforation lines. The perforation process used did not necessarily align them. Actually, perfectly aligned would be more of a red flag. Look closely to see if the center line has been added--drawn-in. Check the straight edges--should not appear as crisp cut as having been done with an Exacto or scissors--this for me is sometimes hard to determine, but there should not be a really sharp cut edge.
#387 can be faked using imperforated #383 or sheet stamp #374 or booklet pane #374a. Just based on the scan, the pair look pretty good, if faked, its a pretty good job. Look really close at the center perf. holes--maybe too perfect?

If everything looks good to you, I'd suggest getting the pair expertized since its a pretty high value pair. Hope this helps. Good luck with it.

The perfs on the left look legit, however Trainwreck got it right when he said the perfs should line up horizontally. It makes me wonder, what did they start with if the perfs on the left ARE the real deal? I hope I am wrong and you have something good here. I am not an expert, but I have sent items like this for expertization and that is what I found out.

The perfs DO NOT have to align horizontally to be legit.

The most important thing here.....it is a well centered line pair....(fakers usually dont make fine/very fine stamps, they make the best)that has a higher catalog value. This should already have a cert.....must be a reason why no cert already.

My opinion....fake, perf holes are to clean and rounded.

To "piggy-back" on Kevin's comment, there was a lot of trouble with paper shrinkage in the beginning of the W/Fs which caused perforation problems resulting in perfs. often close to or cutting into the design. Thats one reason why well centered examples of early W/Fs are tougher to find. Because of that issue, the bureau experimented with spacing widths, 2mm,2.75mm and 3mm between some rows of stamps, as well as experimenting with papers (the best know is the bluish variety). Well center stamps and pairs can be found but usually at a premium. I agree with his assessment that this well of a centered line pair probably would have been certified by this time.

Looks legit to me, worth sending to mister Weiss for opinion first.

I don't see perforations being added, looks like they much on all sides and middle

"There are many faked coil stamps, perhaps as many faked as genuine, for the early W/F coil stamps".

My information from coil experts is that there are FAR MORE fakes than genuine coils, especially in the flat plate coils.

I 'm deff not an expert or guru as a lot here are. No the perf do not have to line up but something looks funny about them. Also the line separating the pair running down the perfs making it a line pair doesn't look straight to me. Seems like it should be straight as it looks like it was drawn again correct me if I am wrong. Also correct me here I'm not were I can use a magnifying glass or any tools but the design on the right looks longer than the design on the left. Also the design on the left at the throat looks like something is sticking out of his throat and one on the right doesn't as well as a couple of lines being different maybe cleaned lines or just from the printing process. But I am a Newby and learning. I would say to be sure because of the value send it off and let Bill take a look at it even if he says you need to send it to one of the other experts. I hope it is the real deal for you mstech and don't take my advise on the stamp except to send it off to t he experts.

They look good to me. The perfs on the right may have been cleaned up. To get the value you need to have them authenticated. You should also get them graded if they are real. Graded could go for $1100+ in an auction.

Perfs in the middle do not line up, and aren't spaced evenly. Some are closer together than others.

Opinions are like belly buttons....everyone has one. But only a few opinions count. Send it in-- you can't get an ID only from Bill Weiss for this one, because for coils you'll need to pay for the cert because of the extra time and effort it takes. If it's not good, you could ask for a B&W cert to save a few bucks.

If it does turn out to be good congrats. Hope I'm wrong, but those middle perfs aren't real looking. And Rev is correct-- there are many more fakes than authentic flat plate coils.....Ray

Didn't know that the middle perfs were supposed to line up. These were line perforated by a fixed rotary wheel and hand fed through the Machine ?

Dear all, thanks for all the advice. I sent the image to Bill Weiss for his opinion. And he just came back with the reply - FAKE COIL - read the article on my website to learn how to identify fake coils. I sure have a lot to learn here.

Quite the bummer, sorry to hear. Now at least you have a reference copy.