When To Send For A Cert

When do you justify sending in a stamp or cover for a cert? What is the determining factor, Percieved Rarity, Catalog Value, It's Unique & Unlisted? Then the cert comes back with a judgement that you don't agree with, do you send it to another group? Some companies charge $25.00 for a cert, for more valuable items it's a percentage and that can get pricy real quick.

Then there is the issue of conflicting certs and certs that are just wrong. Or, certs that completely miss identify an item and certs that dissagree with each other. As Bill noted in another post, a cert is just an opinion and everyone knows about opinions, everyone has one of those too.

Some collectors don't care about certs, some do. I would suggest anyone wanting to sell an expensive item to get a cert for that item. More importantly, anyone who is leaving their collection to their family after they pass should as well because their family won't have a clue as to what's special and what's not.

What's your reason to send the item off for a cert?

Art

Lets say I usually sending stamps to be certified only in case if I cant determine right catalogue number. Its gives me a peace of mind and also thrill of discovering a real rarity.

I take a slight macabre approach. I get a cert if there could be a dispute over the identity of the item that might otherwise leave my widow flummoxed.

Example: I collect GB line engraved. All my plate 11 penny blacks have certs. Although it is readily apparent to anyone who knows the field whether or not these are genuine plate 11 versions, my widow would certainly be out of her depth and I am concerned she might be taken advantage of. The cert solves that problem. In other words, my criteria is whether there is a significant value distinction between stamps that could be easily misidentified.

I have a great number of penny reds, with maltese crosses, some of which are not cheap. I do not in general get certs for them, since as a class there isn't a great deal of distinction is value between plates. BUT, if there was a special MX on one, say a Greenock cross, that is certified, because how is my widow ever going to know?

Equally, in the Machin field, most are of no special value, but in the pre decimal range, there is a 4d Machin which due to the combination of the gum and the head type, the value is dramatically different, that one has a cert because my widow certainly won't know.

So, I go by the widow test. If it would make a different and I would want to protect her.

Just my 2d,

Larry

Answer: Yes.

Seriously though, there's any number of reasons, depending on the item and the circumstances.

1. Authenticity. Is it real or contrived?

2. Identification. Even though it may be real, is it Scott XXX or YYY?

3. Condition. Are there flaws/faults not readily apparent.

4. Grading. Is it a VF or XF? In certain circles that's considered critically important (and in some cases required, e.g., registry sets).

5. Validation of discovery. Scott is reluctant to list new items without verification.

And at a less granular level:

1. Peace of mind and ability to return. Especially important on high-ticket items, that you get them certed within the extension period. Auction houses will usually send items in for you, whereas with ebay and other online sales, sometimes its incumbent upon the buyer.

2. Resale potential. Certain stamps just won't sell without a cert.

3. The integrity of the collection as a whole. When it comes time for liquidation, by whatever means, the presence of certs on key or potentially problem items lends credence to all the other items in the collection, i.e., the likelihood that items are genuine and properly identified is increased. That can make a HUGE difference not only as far as offers, but also how much time parties will actually spend claculating an offer. It sends a message that time, effort, and resources were expended putting the collection together.

I've heard many dealers say that because they cannot spend significant time assessing every single collection that comes across the table when the majority are comparatively valueless, the first thing they do is check the key items for presence, authenticity, and condition. The examination of those few items will determine how much time they will then actually spend on the rest of the collection.

It matters.

4. Making liquidation easier on heirs.




You have to be careful there, as you could be spending good money after bad chasing a pipe dream. The VAST majority of the time the experts get it right.




Oh yes. Frank Bachenheimer keeps a photocopy of a wonderful, but headshaking item, where the same stamp received 3 certs, from APEX, PSE, and the PF, all with different conflicting opinions.

Occasionally, everybody gets it wrong.

1. If, once you have studied the stamp/cover and are convinced that it may be a scarce color/variety or just a high-value stamp in sound condition, an investment in a certificate is justified, to me.

2. If you think you have an earliest use of a stamp/rate, a certificate will provide basis for EDU (earliest documented use).

3. If you are about to sell some better/scarcer items (within 5 years), I believe recent certificates help with the price.

Some cert services demand a certain percentage of the highest listed value for the stamp. Considering Scott and auctions. I know PSE & PF do. At least they did a year ago.


-IBFS

"Oh yes. Frank Bachenheimer keeps a photocopy of a wonderful, but headshaking item, where the same stamp received 3 certs, from APEX, PSE, and the PF, all with different conflicting opinions".

I would like to know what the item is and when the three certs were issued.

I've emailed him and asked him if he could send me a scan.

Thanks.

Here it is. I'd forgotten how humorous the conflicting verdicts are, and it's 4 certs not 3. I don't know who actually wrote the commentary in the center, so I would not attribute it to anyone in particular.

I love the reperfing moving from none at all to the left to the right and then back to none at all.

The sequence of the certs is upper left, lower left, upper right, lower right.

This listing was pointed out to me the other day...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/87-VAR-VF-X...em2c67b2d5ee

The first cert missed the reperf AND the 'Preston Shift' (which was a known double transfer variety at the time of the first cert).

Don

I've shown this cert before, I think it's proof that certs are not always to be relied upon nor even remotely accurate.

Art

revenuecollector.....AMAZING!
The thing I find most amusing....
APS cert says "torn"?
Not 1 of the other 3 see a tear???
The APS cert was 1st....so it could
not have been torn after????

At one time I started to "collect" and record conflicting expert certs, but along the way, I finally concluded a few things;

1. Everybody makes mistakes;

2. All "experts" are FIRST and foremost HUMAN, so to expect that mistakes can't or won't be made, is silly;

3. I found that a highly high percentage of expert certs are accurate and maybe 2% are not, or contain errors, so to me, 98% correct seems pretty darn good.

4. Anyone who wants to read an article published recently in Linn's Stamp News that expands on this subject, visit my website at www.stampexpertizing.com and click on "Stamp Expertizing, More Than Just Identification" at the bottom.

Here's when I want a cert:

If it's valuable.

If it's something that can be faked or is known to have been faked.

If a graded cert will improve the liquidity of the stamp.

If a cert will improve the liquidity of the stamp.

Also, rare and valuable varieties need a cert... As well as stamps that are constantly misidentified.

Certs from 25 years ago often said little or nothing other than "genuine" if that is what a stamp was. It's less that they missed those factors than that it was not how certs were being written at the time by the people then doing them.