To Lift Or Not To Lift... (Anonymous Poll)

Case in point...

Let's say you have a valuable cover... the stamp
is fairly rare and needs to have its watermark
confirmed and certificated...

SCV for the canceled stamp is $360 for standalone,
and $1200 on cover... (and) although there is no
document inside of it, there exists a known history
with regards to the addressee, (and), (hypothetically),
(to the right buyer) it may have a potential value
in excess of the $1200...

Let's say the watermark is confirmed, and everything
is A.O.K. ... however, (albeit certificated) we now
have a stamp hinged to its cover...

-----

After some discussion, I have been informed the
following from a well-respected philatelic expert...

"Lifting any stamp from a cover, then reattaching it
simply by hinging it in place is a long-accepted method
which allows a stamp to be lifted for examination, then
replaced by hinging. It does NOT affect the value of
the item and the "on cover" price remains the same."

What would you do?

disi123,

I am not clear on the "either or" of your two choices allowed. My actual choice is (1) AND (2). In other words, I would probably send the cover to be expertized (1) and would trust the lifting/opinion of the expert doing the certification (2).

And, yes, if I were planning to sell the cover, I would both have it lifted and certified.

orstampman... thank you for your response...

To certify you will likely have to lift it. If all other clues point to a good chance that this is what you hope then yes and yes. Lift and certify.

stampcrow... thank you for your reply...

What I'm trying to do is to get inside
of a buyer's head...

First off... I'm a collector, not a seller...
however, (if) I wind up selling this cover,
I'm not going to do it myself, I'll send it
to Siegel's more than likely should I make
that decision...

If you were a buyer, would you consider
buying an item like this (even with a cert)
if the stamp was hinged to the cover and
not adhered in its original condition?

I'm sure if a concensus were done on this
issue the responses would be quite mixed...
anywhere from "sure, why not" to "not in
this lifetime"...

*That* is the dilemma... if I were laying
out that kind of money (certed or not) I
wouldn't want my stamp flopping on a hinge...
I would want it in its original condition...

If the cancels are obviously tying this stamp to the cover, then yes I would buy it as a rare combo.

I would buy it as a rare combo...with a cert that is!

If I was you I would obtain a credible opinion on what the stamp is and then send it in to be both lifted and certed.

Why wait on sending it to Siegel? If that is the destination for the cover, then send it to them now and follow their advice on how to market it, since they have a stake in it once they accept the consignment.

In the first place I think the cancel is clear enough, and that the numeral in question is a 5. If so, then you don't need to lift the stamp. In the second place, despite what the expert said, my observation is that when the auctioneer say6s the item has been lifted and replaced, it has a dampening effect on enthusiasm for the cover. Some well to do purists will say that they can wait for an unambiguous example, and the thin market just got thinner. If the "5" can be verified on its own, why risk it for the watermark?

The Siegel staff, probably Corey for this one, is well qualified to advise on the best course.

Essay... thank you kindly for your
commentary...

As you've read in my other post I strongly
believe it's a 5... it's nice to see there
is somebody else whom validates the line of
thinking (based upon the visual)... and not
risk lifting the stamp. I too feel that the
lifting process will be a detraction to the
cover (and) its value...

I'm going to take your advice and contact
Siegel...

Thanks again...

Randall

I didn't know in this case that it could be verified without lifting. Sounds like sound advice from essayk!

stampcrow... the validation/verification
in this particular case is more based
upon the date of the CDS... versus the
watermark of the stamp...

If the year is 1915 and (not) 1919
the stamp has to be a 461, as the
461 was the first 2cent2 perf 11
issued in late 1914 or early 1915...
I'm at work right now without my
Scott, so I'm approximating from
memory... the 499 came a few years
later.

Based upon all of the other factors
considered, the cover is likely not
faked with a 499...

I am the expert quoted in the first post in this thread. To obtain the best price possible, this item needs a cert. While I too agree with you and essayk that the date probably *is* 1915 (in which case, it MUST be a 461 if it is perf 11 and the stamp originated on the cover), I still believe that because the "5" is poorly struck, any buyer is going to require a cert. before they plunk down any decent amount of money for it. And my guess is that is what Cory is going to tell you too. But by all means, you SHOULD contact him, but I also doubt that he will be interested in running the item at ALL if it's the only item you have to consign. #461 on cover is $1,200. in Scott. Even certified, to me, this is worth less than $500. and as such, would not be of interest as a stand-alone item (unless you have a prior relationship with the house where they know you've sold a goodly amount of material in the past, in which case, they would make an exception).

And by the way, as far as I know, only two expert services offer lifting of a stamp prior to expertizing and one of them (APEX) would require you to fully submit the item, regardless of whether it turns out to be a 461 or not. And I am not even certain they will even do it still, as the person who did it for many years no longer is very active due to eye problems. Therefore, your "lifting" options are few.

I find it difficult to believe that in a few years time there will not be sufficient new technology to test the stamp without lifting and without damage to the stamp. On that day the sale price of all lifted stamps will fall by at least 50%. Unless I desperately needed a sale now, I would not touch a lifter with a 6 foot bargepole.

disi,

Send the cover to Bill. End of story.

I also agree that Siegel is a fantastic company, however...

a) Without a cert they won't entertain your item. If they didn't have this policy then they'd have to hire someone full time to explain to people that they don't actually have a rare stamp.

b) A single $4-500 cover won't be enough for a consignment to them if I am not mistaken.

I must add that this post was very helpful to me. I always had wondered just how a lifted stamp from/on a cover was viewed by the general and advanced collectors- now I have a very good consensus from some very reputable people. Good to know! Thank you.

Is their an image of this particular cover here or in another thread perhaps? I would really like to see it if you wouldn't mind? Just merely to "put a face to the name" so-to-speak. Just curiosity of what this cover looks like over all. Again, Thank you kindly!